How The Phantom Menace Killed the Star Wars Franchise

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Jabbadabbado, May 25, 2002.

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  1. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Without a body, you can't convict Lucas.

    Until SW actually dies, you have nothing on him.
  2. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    With the OT, everyone knew that the reason all the Star Wars movies were among the most successful movies of all time was because they offered the best, most spectacular entertainment available at the movies.

    But now, Star Wars is just another summer movie. With the OT, fans were able to love Star Wars because it was great. Now, we're forced to love it because solely it's Star Wars and not for its own intrinsic worth, the same way Trekkies love all those horrible Star Trek movies.

    AOTC is another bad movie folks. If it were the first bad Star Wars movie, the masses wouldn't care. They would go see it in droves the way they saw TPM. But since it's the second bad one in a row, the public is treating like any other summer blockbuster.
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    You think it is bad, but it's fans love it to death. The fans are all who have ever really mattered.
  4. Menlu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2001
    star 2
    Gonna have to agree with Ultimate here.

    Also, the hype for AoTC was nowhere NEAR the level that TPM was.
    In fact, I'm only beginning to really hear about it now, after its release. Up until a week or so ago, I saw one trailer for it, and that was on-line! :/

    Nevertheless, I expect AoTC to do very well.
  5. Ultimate Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2000
    star 3
    Thak you Jabba for telling us why we loved Star Wars in the first place and why we love it now. I'll make sure to get any feelings I have on the saga run by you first to see if they're correct.

    You think AOTC is bad. Fine. Don't try to extrapolate any further, especially since there's actually polling from different sources on the subject of how audiences felt about AOTC. Ones that tell an entirely different story than the one you're trying to force feed everyone here.

    Fans are treating it like a typical summer blockbuster. Riiiiiiiiiiiight. I guess it's typical for summer films to be one of the fastest to 100 and 200 million. Like I said, don't start dancing with joy yet.
  6. darthsidious32 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 4
    At my workplace, all we ever talk about is Star Wars anymore. Once AOTC came out, even the lesser of the Star Wars enthusiasts than me love the heck out of it. They're considering it the best one of the series. Better than any SW movie to date. I didn't even go that far. I only rated it as good as ANH and possible ESB. But trust me, people are loving this movie.

    The Phantom Menace did not kill the franchise. It's still doing a heck of a lot better than Star Trek - and even THEY are still going.

    Just because AOTC isn't doing as good as TPM, doesn't mean the franchise is dead. It's far from it. It's kind of like saying that Michael Jackson's mansion is so much better than say, Brad Pitt's. It doesn't mean that Brad Pitt's mansion isn't worth anything at all. It doesn't mean that his worth is dead. Not by a long shot.
  7. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    "Now, we're forced to love it because solely it's Star Wars and not for its own intrinsic worth, the same way Trekkies love all those horrible Star Trek movies."

    "AOTC is another bad movie folks."

    Jabba, I really wish you'd stop putting words or opinions in other fans' mouths. ;)
  8. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    On any other board in the JC, Jabba's rhetoric would be considered trolling. He's lucky that the mods on this board dislike TPM almost as much as him.

    -Otis
  9. Makavelli Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 1
    No, Jabba's lucky he's been here since 99. He's become a bitter troll who hopes for Star Wars' downfall because it makes his beloved OT shine more.
  10. Darth-Schwartz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2002
    star 4
    all the movies acting action and dialog are the same. there is no difference. people put the ot on a pedistal and wont admit that the pt is just as good if not better. tpm didn't hurt the franchise there is no "bad" poblicity hence people complaining about tpm for 3 years, its all free promotion.
  11. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    A number of people on this board incorrectly proclaim that all fans love AOTC and the public has embraced it, then I am trolling if I offer a well-reasoned explanation for why this is wrong?

    I've read plenty of other fans who agree with me that AOTC is a deeply flawed movie. There are plenty of lifelong fans like me who have made the same conclusion that I have that part of the reason AOTC is declining at the box office faster than any Star Wars movie ever is that much of the public is fed up with Star Wars movies whose flaws have to be excused, brushed aside, glossed over and ignored to make the movie seem enjoyable.
  12. son_of_the_tear Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 5
    Well, thus far, most of public response and fan response has been positive.

    Not saying all, but most.

    So, you didn't like it. Does it bother you that most of us here do like it?

    Seriously.

  13. son_of_the_tear Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 5
    And even so, why does it matter to you?

    TPM was the first SW movie in 16 years.

    The hype is gone.

    The day of once in a while blockbusters of 20 years ago is gone.

    If AOTC makes over 200 million, it's a hit.

    That is what a usual blockbuster makes today. The days of blockbusters like Indy and SW and ET making all the money is long gone.

    Nowadays, you have about 25 to 30 blockbusters a year.

    When a movie makes a huge, huge record, like TPM or Titanic or "x" films, it is rare and does not happen as often.

    The times have changed.

    And in today's world, it is harder for a sci-fi/fantasy film to generate the 400 million dollar mark. I love the PT. But lets say the PT had all the hardcore fans creaming for joy 100 percent, even you. It would still not do it. Not in today's market.

    TPM had 16 years of anticipation. That was an excepion.

    And if your trying to convince us that we are wrong for liking the PT, then stp right now.
  14. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    I'm afraid to say I have to agree with Jabba. Not about AOTC being bad (only poodoo heads think that :) ) but about TPM killing the franchise.
    For the last three years I argued that TPM wouldn't have become the third most successful film of all time just from hype - a lot of people must have loved it. But now I see I was wrong. TPM's low declines from week to week were purely the result of the film being an event. Even if people didn't see it the first week, they felt they had to see it eventually because of all the fuss. Hence the strong legs.
    But now AOTC is being viewed as just another summer blockbuster. So even though it's 100 times better than TPM, the "must-see" factor is gone. If AOTC had been Episode I it would have made at least 500 million and possibly challenged Titanic.
    But now it's only the fans who care about the prequels. It's sad, but we must accept it.
  15. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Nope, I'm not saying you're wrong for liking the PT. I'm saying you're a fan for liking the PT. That's fine. Like Star Trek, Star Wars has evolved into the movie saga that only a fan can love.

    The PT has driven away about 1/3 to 40% of Star Wars' casual fan base, ie the viewing public that would go to see a Star Wars movie no matter what. AOTC's box office numbers make it absolutely crystal clear that those people are gone, and that they probably lost interest because of TPM.
  16. darthleefox Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    i am sorry but the ot is litterd with flaws as are all the star wars films, however i belive aotc is the best star wars film i have seen, i mean in empire strikes back there are flaws aotc is the nearest star wars film to tesb ever and i love it. The audience ive seen it with twice both cam e out with smiles on there faces they loved it, hey i live in the uk and am yet to see spiderman but i will go and see it as well but it wont be as worthwhile as aotc, apart from the sceanes on naboo in tpm i really loved that film as well, And the star trek films have always been good, Ep II is gonna give lucas a nice profit and you have to remember hes nort in it for the money as he is already rich.
  17. scruffy-lookin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2001
    star 3
    As much as I like to place blame especially on TPM I think its a little early to be calling the franchise in general and AOTC in particular dead.

    Star Wars doesn't command the market the way it did in the late seventies and early eighties, wow big surprise.

    AOTC won't make as much as TPM, most people including Lucas stated this before AOTC's release.

    Do people really care that much about box office totals? They're the only figures you seem to hear regularly compared to different years without adjusting for inflation, why so the movie industry can hype a movie as the biggest grossing movie in X years. Its all a scam IMHO.
  18. Makavelli Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 1
    Jabba,
    AOTC is doing just fine at the Box Office, even for a Star Wars movie, you, however, are a little bit of an obsessive pyscho. It's the SECOND FASTEST to reach 200!

    "Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones jumped 41.5% from Friday to an estimated $18,087,000 on Saturday, 58% more than its nearest competitor Spider-Man. In 10 days, it has rocketed to $172,175,000 and leapt 23 spots from Friday to No. 68 on the all time chart in the process, landing just a smidgen behind fellow Fox 2002 release Ice Age.

    Clones's trajectory now points to around $62 million over the four-day Memorial Day weekend, with Friday to Sunday accounting for $48 million of that. It should blast past the $200 million mark by Monday -- its 12th day of release -- making it the second fastest movie ever to do so behind Spider-Man, which did it in nine.

    Without adjusting for inflation, Clones' gross will start to lag behind Menace by Day 15 (Thursday) at the latest. Facing far more competition in coming weeks than Menace did, Clones will likely fall short of Menace's $431,088,297 final tally."
  19. son_of_the_tear Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 5
    TPM never killed it.

    In fact, a new generation if fans. Both children and people who never saw a SW movie before and got hooked.

    Jabba, say what you want. Fact is, most kids dug TPM and it created a new fanbase. I have seen it myself as well as most other have around here.

    And TPM did not kill the series because I have seen more people that liked it. Except for one friend of mine, I have yet to meet someone in the real worl who hates TPM.

    Even the polls show that.

    TPM did not kill anything. It is too late to kill SW. The moment it makes over 100 million, it's too late.
  20. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    Jabba, you also forgot to mention that boycotters like you have stolen millions from Lucas by not going to see AOTC. :)

    Not to mention the ticket conspiracy by greedy theaterowners. I'm surprised AOTC has made as much as it has.
  21. Jar Jar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 1998
    star 4
    Well TPM is generally liked by the general public but it's simply viewed as not living up to the hype. Jar Jar became to poster child for not only what was wrong with TPM, but what was wrong with countless other hollywood films with bad characters no one liked. Kids on the other hand had no such preconceptions and thusly many if not MOST like Jar Jar. Every show I have been to of AOTC with kids thus far, they have never failed to laugh when Jar Jar showed up.

    Most folks I have talked to thought there was too much Jar Jar but looked past it and enjoyed the rest of the film. In hind sight I don't think TPM has had too much bearing on anyone but overly-obsessive fanboys who are fickle anyway. Let them rot on the vine is all I have to say on that.

    AOTC and Star Wars is simply just not that important to general folks as it is to us. They have many other films like MIB 2, Austin Powers 3, and others that they like more. Like I said I don't know/care if TPM is factor in it all, but even if it is, Episode 2 has made it's money back plus some, we all like it, I have seen it four times, and I'm sure that's all we care about right?
  22. son_of_the_tear Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 5
    Like I said, hthe 70's and 80's are over, my friend.

    Since the over indulgence of the 90's and now of the new century, films have changed.

    If you are expecting SW to crush everything, you are mistaken. TPM had huge, huge hype that nothing coulf have lived up to it.

    Jesus, Moses, Krishna, Buddah and Allah could have had roles in it and it would till have not lived up to the hype.

  23. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    "Every show I have been to of AOTC with kids thus far, they have never failed to laugh when Jar Jar showed up."

    I had the same experience during my third viewing of AOTC. A boy, eight years old at most, exclaimed "Jar Jar!" when the goofy gungan appeared onscreen for the first time. It was wonderful. Oddly enough, my inner child did the same thing upon MY first viewing.

    I read a lot about "fans" who are happy that Jar Jar had a small role in AOTC. I wonder how that little boy felt about it. Or any child who fell in love with Star Wars in 1999, for that matter . .

    -Otis
  24. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    If the general public's idea of a "great film" is The Spy Who Shagged Me or The Mummy Returns, I'm glad Lucas made this film just for the fans. But face it, Star Wars is the only franchise where the fans alone can push a film into blockbuster status :)

    Jabba, have you noticed that you're the only person in this topic that seems to want AOTC to make less than TPM? The majority do not seem to agree with you on the decline of Star Wars.
  25. prizm Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    i love how people are so convinced of their opinions that they think they can think for other people

    no thanks Jabba i prefer to enjoy the films, i dont need nor do i want you telling me that i am wrong
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