How The Phantom Menace Killed the Star Wars Franchise

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Jabbadabbado, May 25, 2002.

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  1. Tristian_of_Naboo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    Here,Here.

    You are quite right. The entry of TPM did destroy most of what I loved and felt was magical about the star wars trilogy. There was absolutly no coninuity whatsoever. Lucas was just making an attempt to make a profit. Which there is nothing wrong with that but there is something wrong with when you butcher something beautiful in the process.
    And AOTC didn't help any. Yoda is CGI'd for god's sake. He never was before! Why now?
    I agree with you completely, Jabbadabbado
  2. Ulaleros Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    star 2
    i'm not sure why people are still denying the truth about the critical reception of tpm and aotc. almost every review i've read of aotc makes some mention of how tpm was panned by the critics. and even articles that arent reviews mention the poor critical reception that tpm got. critics dont like aotc any more than tpm...look at rotten tomatoes, there are about 130 reviews that, and that's a pretty good sampling. the percentage of good reviews is almost exactly the same as for tpm, and they both have rotten ratings. in three more years, the reviews of episode three will surely make reference to the mixed critical reception of both tpm and aotc.

    also, at the time i thought i liked aotc a lot more than i do. i still think it is far better than tpm, but i'm not quite as gushery about it as i was when i first saw it. the diner scene was absolutely horrible, and embarassing...what was lucas thinking??? i'm surprised i havent seen more complaints about it. all in all though, i was entertained and didnt cringe nearly as much as i did at tpm.

    there is no way aotc is going to beat spider man and the box office for the year.
  3. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    And over there is the door, Tristian_of_Naboo, if you find the PT so unsatisfying.
  4. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    i'm not sure why people are still denying the truth about the critical reception of tpm and aotc. almost every review i've read of aotc makes some mention of how tpm was panned by the critics. and even articles that arent reviews mention the poor critical reception that tpm got.

    And do you believe everything you read? Some of the very same critics who were positive about TPM did some major backpedaling and are now pretending they hated TPM all along when they review AOTC. Moreover, the critics who bitched and moaned about certain aspects in TPM have no trouble with those very same aspects in AOTC.

    The media would have you believe that all the critics hated TPM and all the fans did as well. The facts show a different story.
  5. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Does anyone else find it amusing and ironic (and yet it makes you want to scream) that Tristian_of_Naboo seems to bash both TPM and AOTC yet his name IS FROM A PLANET CREATED IN THE PREQUEL TRILOGY??????????????????

    If you hate it so much then go by Tristian_of_Bespin. Hypocrite.
  6. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    This thread should be titled "How Jabbadabbado Hates Star Wars But Keeps Talking About It"

    Hey dabbado ESB is the least successful of all the Star Wars films so what do you think about that, ya lousy troll?
  7. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    Jabbadabbadoo killed the Star Wars franchise! I saw it with my own eyes! He reached out with the force and made every critic give AOTC a bad review, then he used his mindtrick to turn regular moviegoers away from theaters.
    You win this round, Jabba, but we shall have our revenge in 2005.
  8. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Duckman, it's true: we still have 2005 to look forward to.

    Sdj, your information is wrong. ESB is second only to ANH in number of tickets sold and in box office earnings in real dollars.

    In real dollars, the box office success of the movies is ranked in the order they were made.

    ANH
    ESB
    ROTJ
    TPM
    AOTC
  9. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    Where do you get you "real dollars" numbers from, Jabbadabbadoo?


    Another thing- when the OT was released, videos were about as popular as DVDs were 5 years ago. if you saw a film, you saw it in the cinema. If you saw it again... you saw it in the cinema. And films were re-released in the cinema too for years after the original release; something which sadly doesn't happen anymore (with the exception of Special Editions/Redux/Directors cuts etc.) That's something else that's going to have an effect on the box office numbers.

    There are lies, damn lies and statistics...
  10. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    There was an article a few weeks back from abcnews online that gave the Star Wars movies box office takes, adjusted for 2002 dollars, as well as approximate number of tickets sold. I don't remember reading their source.

    However, box office grosses adjusted for inflation are available at boxofficereport and at boxofficemojo.com. Accurately adjusting box office numbers for inflation is difficult though, and I certainly don't have the information to do it properly.
  11. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    Wow! People need to calm the hell down in here! So what if Jabba and Tristen don't like the new movies and feel like expressing their discontent? That doesn't mean they are a "troll" or a "hypocrite" or that they should leave these forums. Open your eyes and realize that not everyone thinks the same way, and that there is such a thing as differing opinions. Just wait, and if AOTC makes $400 million at the box office then you can all come back and say "I told you so" and ridicule Jabba all you want.

    Kudos Jabba for not jumping into a flame war that is trying to be started. I would also like to see those box office stats, if you have a link.



  12. Ulaleros Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    star 2
    "The media would have you believe that all the critics hated TPM and all the fans did as well. The facts show a different story."

    oh come on. some of you guys think there's some sort of conspiracy about everything. just like with the reviews at rotten tomatoes....i remember when aotc first came out, aotc had a rating of about 61 or 62% and gushers were screaming that rt was deliberately witholding positive reviews. but now all the usual 130 reviews are all up there and the rating is even lower, around 58% now.

    it all depends on what you consider a 57% rating to be. even if critics were trying to "make us believe" that tpm had a poor critical reception, the original percentage that tpm got has not changed in three years...the reviews from 1999 are all the same, and MOST critics would not consider 57% to be a good critical reception, even if you do.
  13. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    As I've stated before, I have no idea why people take so much interest in box office returns. Are we all George Lucas's accountants, or something? It's just a dull subject. To me, how well a film does at a box office is no indication of the quality of it. Some films do brilliantly at the box office and are great films in their own right, like Jaws, Star Wars, and Raiders of the Lost Ark, to name a few, and others that do brilliantly are just incredibly rubbish, like Independence Day, or Harry Potter. I can't understand why some people have so much interest in how well a film does commercially. Anyhow, can we please not let this degenerate into a flame war? It's only a small thing to ask.
  14. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    the AOTC box office thread proves there's interest. My own rabid posting rate doesn't even account for 10% of the total. :)

    I assume that if people post, there's interest. If no one posts, the thread dies. Isn't the Darwinist model of thread survival. I just like the numbers and stats. That's how I got into TF.N in 99 by following threads here and at Countingdown about whether TPM would beat Titanic. That was one of the big threads of the Spring of 99. It's been a consistent winner.

    People are interested. There's no use griping about it. :)
  15. FOX1973 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2001
    star 1
    Whether you think TPM ruined SW or not- and I definitely think NOT- if you think the franchise is dead, what are you all doing still moaning about it 3 years on?

    I notice alot of people that didn't like TPM also didn't like AOTC too much.
    But they still wait for Episode 3...
  16. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    AOTC dropped another 50% on Wednesday...

    So, in conclusion

    My thesis:

    AOTC will struggle to make $300 million in the U.S. because TPM eroded the public's trust in the Star Wars saga and undermined its critic-proof status.

    The response:

    1. Shut up you troll, the public loves AOTC.
    2. **** you, troll, AOTC will make $400 million U.S. easily.
    3. Look, troll. Fans love it, so AOTC must be good.
    4. No one cares about box office you dumb f***ing troll.

    Does that pretty much sum it up. :)

  17. funky-gonk-droid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 1
    I Don't know, I think a lot of movies would love to be in the position where they may not quite hit the 300 million mark. :)
    Seriously though I respect your right to your own opinion you've put you're money where your mouth is and I hope you're just as gracefull if AOTC does indeed pass the 300 million mark in the US.
    Star Wars did die as a franchise once before a couple of years after ROTJ simply because there was no new movies. Guess what, the franchise will die again! at some point in the future people will just move on to something else once the fever of the PT is over. The best thing to do is try and enjoy what's left of the PT, because once it's over it's over. I can understand if you don't like the new movies, but surely even a "flawed" Star Wars movie is better than 90% of whats on offer in this day and age.
  18. Bud Frescoe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2000
    star 3
    "I notice alot of people that didn't like TPM also didn't like AOTC too much.
    But they still wait for Episode 3... "

    Blame Pandora.
  19. Jedi_Thug Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    It honestly puzzles me as to why everyone loves to bash this film so much. No movie is perfect...let's get that out of the way...even the highly exalted Episode IV :)

    It seems that most people's (not saying everyone's criticism) goes to one thing: Jar Jar Binks. People dislike the character and his demeanor and thus hail the entire film as horrible.

    Hopefully I'm wrong and there is a little more depth to the criticism, but this is all I ever see. Sure Darth Maul wasn't in every scene; Lucas speficially created the character for the very purpose he served. We shouldn't criticize his role in the film either.
  20. Kenneth-Morgan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2000
    star 3
    Oh, for Pete's sake...

    I liked TPM. I also liked AOTC. In fact, I like the entire series.
    Are the movies perfect? Certainly not. Are they better than most other movies these days? Yes, they are. They include a good amount of characterization and, believe it or not, intelligence and subtlety. Given that we live in an age where movies consist primarily of gory gunfights and multiple variations of "F--- you!", the STAR WARS series stands well above the crowd.
    Did TPM kill the franchise? Absolutely not. Will AOTC kill it? Absolutely not. I work in a library and see kids who are wild about the series (including Jar Jar, whom I liked) come in every day. The franchise continues and new fans are coming on board.

    Oh, and regarding box office numbers, "Citizen Kane" was a flop when first released. And, taking into account skyrocketing admission prices and adjusting the dollar amounts, "Gone with the Wind" leads the pack.
    You can't rely on the numbers here.

  21. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Jabbadabbado I'm waiting for you to offer something worthy of a conversation. I scanned your last dozen or so posts and it's all just bash bash bash. Nothing worthwhile and just your opinion, so no one really cares.
  22. trek_rules Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2001
    star 1
    I disagree that the PT is killing the franchise. Now I'm not saying that AOTC was a masterpiece (almost :)) but I felt the same way I did in 1980 when I saw ESB. For those that feel let down here's some advice offered from the editor of Kerrang magazine:
    "If you feel that this magazine is doing you a disservice then you should stop buying it and find one more to your liking".

    This would apply to the PTs as well. If you don't like them, don't watch them.
    Just my 2 credits.
  23. Darth_Pseudomorph Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Its finally fun to read "sweeping statements." Neutral postings get so boring after awhile, dont they? How could you say that the original Star Wars films were just as flawed. Think of how many lines from the original Star Wars have become cliches. This is the mark of great writing. What lasting dramatic gems do the new movies offer us? Endlessly dull Jedi dogma, blue-screen acting etc. How do these compare with the original films...the sayings of Yoda, the boiling chemistry between Han and Leia and the mystery!!! Starting an epic in the middle of the timeline is genius! It truly feels like a piece of a real-life universe. Creating a back story for it, years later, is apologizing for genius. Why would you want to do that?

    I defy someone to find one quotable line from one of the new Star Wars films.
  24. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    If you start a story in the middle but never show the begining you didn't really start in the middle did you? No it would just be the begining. Every movie has a backstory but to tell the result before you tell the reason is an interesting twist.
  25. Kenneth-Morgan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2000
    star 3
    TO: Darth_Pseudomorph

    "Your focus determines your reality."

    "There's always a bigger fish."

    "Jedi business. Move along."

    "This party is over!"

    "Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future."
    "But not at the expense of the moment."

    "Wipe them out. All of them."

    "Machines making machines. How perverse!"
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