How The Phantom Menace Killed the Star Wars Franchise

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Jabbadabbado, May 25, 2002.

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  1. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    "AOTC dropped another 50% on Wednesday..."

    Wrong again Jabba. AOTC dropped 9.8% on Wednesday, only slightly more than your precious Spider-Man :)

    It's obvious to me why AOTC is not doing as well as TPM.

    1. TPM had 16 years of expectation preceeding it. AOTC had three years of mindless bitching.
    2. TPM's only competition was The Mummy (which was already fading when TPM came out) and Notting Hill. AOTC has the juggernaught of Spidey.
    3. TPM was critic-proof because even non-fans saw the film out of curiosity. AOTC is not critic-proof, because only fans of Star Wars were eager to see the film (which is the same for all sequels).
    4. TPM was a light, cheerful film for kids. AOTC is dark and violent, just like the fans asked for (but not so good for family audiences).
    Did I miss anything? :)

    Maybe Lucas thought it was a genius move to lower people's expectations with TPM, so that AOTC would be hailed as a return to form. Unfortunately, too many people carried their hatred of TPM over to AOTC as well.
  2. Dayron_Fett Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2002
    star 2
    ...AOTC has already topped Spider-man, and the rest of the Box-Office...why complain about day-to-day rates? Who cares that much?
  3. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Sequels never make as much as the original. TPM wasn't really a sequel.
  4. Padawan92 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2001
    star 4
    I don't think it did still.
  5. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Duckman, no the 50% figure is correct. You're comparing day-to-day drops. I'm comparing from the previous Wednesday. The week-to-week comparisons are how to describe a movie's "legs"
  6. SCOTSSITHLORD Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 2

    If TPM killed the franchise why are we all on here talking about it? I've seen the point made a few times earlier, when I flitted through this thread, but it's worth re-iterating. Why should I care about SW box office figures. I saw a pirate of TPM in a pub when I went on holiday to Majorca, a month before it was due out in the UK, and despite the wooden acting of Jake Lloyd and the slapstick of Jar Jar I really enjoyed it, and recommended it to everyone I worked with when I got back. I've now got in on video and despite the flaws, I still enjoy the movie, nevertheless the fact is that AOTC is a much, much better movie.
    It's as visually arresting as TPM, but with a more satisfying plot and much better acting, who cares if more people watched TPM?
    More people watch Guy Ritchie movies or even those awful ones his wife appears in, than will ever watch The Long Good Friday or Get Carter, that doesn't make Snatch any better, it just confirms how unreliable popular taste is.
    All I can go on, is my own opinion, supported by that of fellow fans who I know who all liked TPM, but agree that ATOC is a huge leap forward.
    Another problem when comparing SW to other franchises, LOTR excluded, is that basically it's one long story spread over six movies. This just isn't the case with most sequels. I love the two Batman movies made by Burton, but there's really no continuity or growth there, it's just the same superhero, fighting a slightly different villain. By that logic I'm sure that Spiderman's performance is a one off, there's nothing more to say, just as there was nothing to add to Superman etc, by further movies. Star Wars is a space opera, based on archetypical mythic themes and far from being dead, I'm sure even more people will go to watch Ep 3 to see the completion of Anakin's transformation from innocent slave to Sith lord villain.
  7. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    It's funny how the press--you know, the same press that several bashers have insisted has no biases and only reports what it sees--has failed to note one rather important and obvious fact in its gloating...er, reporting...about AOTC not beating Spiderman's opening weekend grosses: AOTC is playing in 1500 fewer theaters.

    TPM didn't kill the SW franchise. For every snitty fan that ditched SW in a big huff (although many still hung around to complain for years on end) because Lucas dared make a non-action-oriented, slow-paced movie and featured Anakin as an innocent child rather than a sullen, bratty teenager who liked to choke small animals or something (foreshadowing, you know? It can't be subtle, it has to be ham-handed and obvious), I'd be willing to bet there was a viewer who became a SW fan when they hadn't been before, or else a SW fan who thought TPM was great.

    If you think AOTC is a better movie, fine. But I wish people would quit denigrating TPM and inventing elaborate ways to dismiss its high box office take, either to "prove" that TPM killed the SW franchise (???) or that AOTC is a better movie.

    The press desperately wants to destroy SW, for whatever reason. Spiderman is just their newest weapon, and the first truly effective one, although as I say above, they fail to note how many more screens Spiderman is playing in that AOTC. But hey, such facts are disposable when you've got an agenda.
  8. funky-gonk-droid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 1
    Yeah, The Star Wars Movie franchise is a sure thing for the whole of it's 6 movie run. It'll die after the final movie and not before.
  9. Ulaleros Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2001
    star 2
    1500 fewer theaters??? um, no. i may not be exact, but aotc was in about 3160, and spider man, for its opening weekend was just under 3700 (although it rose to over 3800 in its second or third week)...that's a difference of about 500 theaters. anyway, i think when theater counts were announced, nobody expected aotc to beat spider man on opening weekend. i think it's pretty certain though that aotc will not beat spider man in total gross.
  10. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    It's funny how the press--you know, the same press that several bashers have insisted has no biases and only reports what it sees--has failed to note one rather important and obvious fact in its gloating...er, reporting...about AOTC not beating Spiderman's opening weekend grosses: AOTC is playing in 1500 fewer theaters.


    Not 1500. 500. Valid point but incorrect fact.

  11. Telemachos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 2
    It's funny how the press--you know, the same press that several bashers have insisted has no biases and only reports what it sees--has failed to note one rather important and obvious fact in its gloating...er, reporting...about AOTC not beating Spiderman's opening weekend grosses: AOTC is playing in 1500 fewer theaters.

    Spidey opened on 3615, then expanded to 3876. AOTC opened on 3161.

    More importantly, though (and more pertinent to your stats) is that Spidey had a stronger per-screen average than AOTC:

    Spidey, per-screen average of $31,769
    AOTC, per-screen average of $25,317

    Even if they had opened in identical numbers of theatres, Spidey would still have beaten AOTC. However, AOTC's per-screen average was better than TPM's.

    btw, regarding the press -- I've never suggested that they are entirely objective, because I don't believe ANY journalism is entirely objective. But you imply that their goals, means of reporting, personal grudges, etc are all the same, and that's wrong. The "media" is a mass of all sorts of journalism: dinky internet fan sites, big corporate fan sites, weekly alternative magazines, daily newspapers with huge circulations, etc -- to say nothing of all the TV and radio shows. How can you realistically suggest that they all have the same purpose? Oh yeah, I guess The Man needs to beat George down.
  12. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    My Star Wars franchise is just fine.

    Maybe you guys forgot to feed yours or something. They need lots of love. I hear that if you neglect TPM, it has been known to eat the classic trilogy installments out of a basic need to survive.
  13. r3-t7 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    This is the weirdest thing but I was very disappointed with TPM but the more I see it the more I like it and have come to relize that it is not a bad movie at all. In fact it is a very good movie and AOTC is the same. It is more impressive than TPM and will I'm sure become better over time. They will never measure up to the OT but they are very good in there own right. I would just like to ask Jabba one question, do you own TPM on video or dvd and if so why? Don't lie now, you can tell the truth we are all friends here.
  14. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Interesting to note the Spider-man spent twice as much on marketing (50 million) as Clones did and cost 15 million more to make. Marketing can sell anything look at music that's why that crap sells because it's well marketed.
  15. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Shelley, I think Lucasfilm and Fox felt that the number of screens AOTC played on was irrelevant because AOTC would be a "marathon runner" (their words).

    Now that they know AOTC is plummeting week-to-week like any other over-hyped summer blockbuster, I'm sure they wish they'd opened AOTC as wide as possible, to get as many people into the theater in the first weekend before the audience figured out how mediocre the movie was and disappeared into thin air.

    Believe me, I don't entirely blame TPM for AOTC's box office. I just think that if TPM had been better, the audience would be more forgiving of AOTC's horrible shortcomings as a movie.

    But AOTC should have been better too. It's just that audiences understandably are refusing to be fooled twice.
  16. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Oh your right Jabba I've been lying to myself this whole time! I see the light! TPM and AotC are so horrible that I wanted to drown myself in a pool filled with chemical waste from Chernobyl. Yes all those polls calling AotC a great film (rating second and third and sometimes first best SW movie) are all made by thousands of people that are also deluding themselves. Why isn't everyone else as smart and observant as you? Thank you Jabbadabbado! Thank you!


    That was sarcasm by the way if you didn't know. I think Jabba should start adding IMO at the end of his posts because that's all it is. I do think he's suffering from megalomania however.
  17. JediBindu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 1
  18. ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    Bannable offense personal attacks are. Calm down some people need to.
  19. r3-t7 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    Come on jabba are you not going to anwser my question? Or are you afraid of the truth?
  20. funky-gonk-droid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 1
    According to the latest news, AOTC is going to fall behind TPM in the US but is likely to overtake TPM when the International Box office is taken into account.
    Even us limey bastards can make the difference. God save the Queen and all that. :)
  21. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    You're just loving this, aren't you Jabba? :)

    Everyone else: get off your damn butts and see AOTC again (and bring ten friends with you). You may not think the box office matters to you but consider this: according to the bashers, Lucas only cares about money. If he sees that the light-hearted TPM had far more repeat business than the dark AOTC, what do you think that means for Episode III?



    P.S. I know Lucas cares more about the story, but we need to do something to get more people to see AOTC.
    ;)
  22. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Yes, the international B.O. is very high for Clones. I attribute that to less critics bashing the film and no media desire to bring it down. As a matter of fact the Brits just honored Lucas with an award. And us American's wonder why the rest of the world views us as fickle.

  23. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Remember as well that AOTC has much stiffer competition than TPM did. Spiderman is a great flick with great word of mouth and solid numbers at the Box Office. And now Sum of All Fears has the potential to be a solid money maker as well. TPM had no such competition of this magnitude.

  24. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    I always said that even a bad Star Wars film would still make $300 million. AOTC is not a bad film, but that 300 million total is looking tougher all the time.
  25. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    I've said the same thing, Darth Homer. I think we were both right. Even a bad Star Wars movie can make $300 million at the U.S. box office. AOTC is the test case.

    Darth Homer, I hope you're wrong about Episode 3. I hope he doesn't revert to ultra kiddie mode in response to AOTC's failings.

    Instead, I hope he does the one thing he needs to do to turn the franchise around and go out with a huge, huge hit: get someone else to write the script. Serve as a guide to the Star Wars universe for the writer, but stay out, far, far out of the writing process. My second choice would be to let someone else direct, but at this point, I think writing is 90% of AOTC's problem at the box office, why the public is abandoning it (60% drop on Friday from the previous Friday).
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