How to challenge jedi without having a new sith in every adventure.

Here was one I used.

There was a bad man. (Imperial, Separationist, terrorist fanatic, whatever). He was a genious and a politician, but not a combatant. Before the party stumbled onto his opperations, he'd built up quite a powerbase, both legitimate and illegal. His economic and physical assets spanned several systems.

One of his many science projects involved cloning a jedi who'd fallen (failed to live up to the code & been corrupted by the DarkSide). These clones were grown to maturity and fed a variety of physical stimulous to build up muscle memmory, psychotropic drugs to open them more fully to the Force, and memmories of the original jedi, as well as as much other information about the Force as the scientists could find.
Later he started mixing his own DNA in with that of a force sensitive female to grow not-quite-clones using clone technology. This sped up the process considerablly, and eliminated some of the instability while increasing the clones loyalty.

The failed initial runs that survived being mentally unstable were given over to cybernetic research and almost completely rebuilt and mind wiped.

The party learned to dread my villains. Maybe one day I'll let them catch up with the main villain and take him out. Of course, he has lots of secret research stations...

 

- Force adepts
- Undercover missions (not acting as a Jedi)
- Political factions (e.g. non-combat and wrong to use Affect Mind)

 

Overwhelming Odds... You don't face 6 battle droids... you face 600.

Also, Vitallity doesn't last forever... exspecially for a Jedi Charector who likes to throw their force around a little. Use a bunch of Minions to Widdle The Jedi Down a little... make it seem like a glorius and important fight... Let him/her makes some flashy (and costly) displays of force might...
Then When Victory is just about in sight and the Jedi is just about exhausted (don't give the charectors time to heal) Bring Out the Real Badguys of your story... Something Far more Challenging than the Fight they Were Just Finishing. If they spent the lionshare of their Vitallity Fighting in the last, lessor battle, new and desperate options are all that will remain for the heroes when this new threat reveals itself... Retreat is an Option.
If they do fight on, they will have to more Judiciously use their powers, or they run the very real risk of this being the last encounter they will ever face.

 

Tempt them... wealth, power, romance - the things that Jedi shouldn't get entangled with. (of course, many players would immediately surrender to temptation... but at least you know where your "Jedi" players stand)

Or, have them deal with an NPC who has fallen. A powerful Jedi falls in love with a Princess (not puppy love like that Anakin nonsense)... how do your Jedi deal with him? Killing him like any Sith... that wouldn't be right, would it?

Anything that doesn't require a lightsaber, basically.

 

Throw the Vong at them. When their Force powers do them no good any baddie of almost equal level is going to give them some problems. Of course this will only work in a NJO campaign.

 

Either that or throw something at them that presents serious obstacles to the "aggressive negotiations" business. Say pre-TPM, a Jedi party is dispatched to investigate Trade Federation complaints about piracy in a system. When the Jedi arrive, they find 1) the pirates are well-hidden, requiring some detective work to uncover their base(s), 2) the local system government operates much like Port Royal or Tortuga in the 1600's Caribbean, taking a cut of the loot and having the pirates on hand as a sort of defensive militia while covering them from outside law enforcement, and 3) the pirates are a bunch of honorable rogues - maybe throw in a character similar to Arwen Cohl, Drea Renthal, Talon Karrde, or if you're feeling wacky, Jack Sparrow - figuring that since the TradeFed isn't above strong-arming Rim worlds and lining their pockets greedily, it isn't much of a crime to relieve them of some of their cargo and wealth.

In this case, the Jedi have two options: Pursue the pirates or turn a blind eye. The former allies the Jedi with the TradeFed, which might not be above using its own ruthless methods to exterminate the problem, collateral damage to innocents not being a concern. In addition, the local planetary government has no intent of their deal being exposed and feels an obligation to the pirates, and will use every subtle method to block their investigation. For an added moral dilemma, stay away from the use of violence against the PCs, adding to the party's doubts about whether they are right to take this path. Maybe even have the TradeFed attempt to assassinate the Jedi and pin the blame on the pirates. The second option obviously puts the Jedi in serious conflict with their mandate, the Republic, and the Jedi Council by letting a criminal organization off the hook.

 

Dear god M T Cat, you truly have a devious mind! I love the Character and all his intricacies, would it be possible if you could e-mail me you NPC?s story line and back ground I would love to take some of your ideas and through it into my game and create a villain like yours! My hats of to you for your originality and depth of your story line!

 

Glad you liked it.
Check your PMs.

Sorry it took so long, but I'm affraid my cat (Magellan) managed to chew through my mouse cable. I think he gets a little confused about what a mouse is.

Enjoy.

 

How about the Zahn solution? Lots of Ysalamiri. I don't know if there're any stats for them, but you can make them up.

 

I say "no" to Ysalamiri. I don't like them, not a bit. Once in a while, as a plot device, perhaps; but taking out an essential ability from a character tends to make the player a bit angry.

And how to challenge a Jedi? Use the environment. Chasms, pits, you know the drill.

 

Ysalmiri can be found in the Heir to the Empire & Zahn Trilogy source books by WEG.

OK as a plot device. THat's about it.

 

Yeah, I don't really like them either, but it was an idea. How about making jedi responsible for other characters. Like jedi escorts for diplomats of other people vital to the campaign, so the goal isn't to succeed in battle so much as it is to ensure someone else's survival.

 

On the Ysallimiri Note... Vortexes and Disturbances in the Force... Locations or events that cause vaccums where for some sinister reason the force does not work... or doesn't work the way you expect it to. These Locations have no effect on Non Force Users, but suddenly Jedi Can't Tap into their abillities... Their Difficulties are harder. Or If You are a truly devious GM... Perhaps the Jedi's powers are magnified to obscene levels... a simple force push splatters the noble against the wall, battle mind encases you into a rush of bloodlust that doesn't let up untill there is no one left standing.

Similarly, the Jedi is affected by a strange infliction where it hurts or is dificult to tap into the force... Each time the Jedi uses a force power it costs an additional 1d4 Vitallity and the Jedi must make a Will Saving Throw. If he Misses the save, he temporarily loses 1 point of Wisdom, If He Misses two Saves in a Row, the Jedi may be Exhausted... or unable to tap into the force for the remainder of the Day without using a Force Point.

 

Hmmm... I like that one...

(Un)fortunately, I don't have to worry about jedi in the current group. But you never know what you'll find when someone dies...

 

A true A.I. holocron with malicious, genius intent. Sort of like a leader that has to be carried around by powerful minions. It could even be placed inside a droid body.

A good adventure to do is one where the characters wake up in a cell of some sort. Their lighsabers are gone along with any other equipment. All they have are the clothes on their backs.
There has to be some way in which they ended up there without prior knowledge, surprise knockout toxin or something. It's up to you to contruct everything around them and where their belongings are.
Some ideas:
A hollowed out asteroid.
An ancient trap filled ruin.
An underground facilty below a city.
The north polar cap of a planet.

Situations where a choice must be made, sort of like Yoda had to in AOTC. Save your friend or save the crowd of people who are about to have a spacecraft crash on them.
Comic books make good idea sources for this.

Just a few thoughts.

 

Challenging a Jedi is as simple as presenting them with... difficult choices.

The main difference between challenging a soldier or a noble and challenging a Jedi isn't the Force power or the lightsabers, it's rather the fact that they have a Code to consider when they act, a path to follow, certain situations they can't ignore, and other situations they shouldn't interfere with. Create conflict between what they want to do or have to do and finding the "Jedi" way to do it.

For instance, a child has developed a rare, unique Force ability on his own. All the various Force traditions that have gotten word of this obviously want to learn just how the child does what he does, and have their own designs on the boy. Dark or evil types might see apprentice material in front of them. Good guys might see a boy that could fall to the dark side without guidance, and will definitely be better off with them than any of the other factions.

There are a few wrinkles, however. This child is also the heir to the throne of a planetary government. His parents - his entire government, in fact - is saying that this child is going nowhere, and they are perfectly capable of protecting him themselves, thank you very much.

While the Jedi Council would like to both learn from this boy and train him in the ways of the Jedi, the Jedi must respect the local law. But they also have a duty to protect life and prevent a being from giving in to his own dark urgings or "the dark side". Not all the other Force users interested in the boy are necessarily going to be evil, although they may not have the strict moral code that has left the Jedi hanging back. How to deal with them? When the boy is upset or in danger, he might also lose control and present a challenge. And so on....

You might challenge a scoundrel smuggler by having him sneak his ship past a blockade and deal with the law, as well as his double-dealing criminal contacts. With a Jedi, the conflict should be about making the right choice and not always having an easy answer despite all their power.

In the arena of difficult choices, sometimes there is more than one thing going on at once. If you've got three Jedi in the party and are looking for ways to challenge the whole group of them at once, think about the Star Wars movies. The princess is about to be executed, but they also need to get the tractor beam disabled when she is rescued so they can get away. A sith lord pops out from around the corner, a queen needs protected, and the battle in space and on the ground is turning against the Jedi's allies... all at the same time. The point is that if you have multiple Jedi or even one Jedi that is stepping on other characters' toes or getting everything done too easily, split them up or force them to prioritize. This is also a kind of difficult choice. Can the royal guards protect the queen while you deal with the Sith Lord? Will the battle be lost if someone doesn't jump in that ship and help out?

In any event, difficult choices for Jedi (and needing to be in several places at once) occurs in Star Wars much more often than the appearance of any Sith Lord. Keep your big bad uber-villain in reserve so that he holds special meaning and dread. Let the players wrestle with the challenges and pitfalls of just being a Jedi and having to follow that path.

Other than that, in combat even sophisticated droids or well-equipped, well-designed organic opponents should be a challenge to Jedi characters. Obi-Wan is at least a mid-level Jedi Guardian/Jedi Investigator when he faces Jango Fett. Jango, without Force powers or a lightsaber, presented plenty of challenge. Skew things further in the opponent's favor with environmental conditions - weather, a battle on top of a speeding hover train hundreds of miles above a city, etc... and events - hostages, a need to take the opponent alive for information, interruptions, innocent bystanders getting in the way, distractions that allow a foe to gain an edge or slip away and lead the Jedi on a chase.

Challenging a Jedi

 

How about taking advice from the books.
Have the jedi arrested by strong willed officers and stripped of his pretty laser sword.
Jedi Traps are always cool. Traps that limit the use of the lightsaber by not giving it enough room to move. Then of course remove the oxygen from the trap
Make him babysit (for randomness).

 

I must admit, I like most of the ideas, except for waking up in a cell, but maybe that's because it's happened to me so often (in games, not for real!). There was this one D&D game where we spent a ridiculous amount of time on the inside, but someone always came and broke us out (never one of the PCs, though).

Anyway, yes, comic books make for excellent idea sources for moral dilemmas. "Should I sacrifice one life to save millions?" I mean, really, how does one weigh human life (or sentient life, in this case)? Is the death of a few test subjects really justified by a cure for (insert terminal disease here)? Is it right to sacrifice 81 hostages and a Seal team for the city of San Francisco? You really can't quantify human life in this sort of an equation, if both the hostages and the ones on the other side of the warhead are innocents (though according to George Carlin, there are no innocent victims), how can you reconcile it?

Also, is the guy with his finger on the trigger of that blaster bluffing, or does he really intend to kill the hostages? Can you afford to take the chance that he's not bluffing?

Or, to throw another wrench in the machinery, is vigilantism always wrong? Is it ever right? Are you really serving justice by using unlawful means to take down those who avoid the gallows through unlawful and unjust means (bribing the judge, being born to the right parents, etc.)?

Just some thoughts on life, the universe, and everything...

 

I had an idea after watching Bionicle: Mask of Light the other day. There are these creatures in the movie called Rakata (I think) that are essentiall droids with worm creatures for brains. Now what if some demented scientist or darksider was to combine the DNA of a Ysalamiri with some sentient predatory species to create a more aggressive force sensitive creature, then he puts these critters in the droid bodies to fight the jedi.

Equip these suckers with a Cortorsis staff and armor and you've got one hell of a jedi killer on you hands. What's more, since they're shielded from the force you could give them Vorskyr(those force hunting dogs, forgive the spelling!) to use as trackers. NASTY!

 

The ysalmiri will also cancel the super-force sensativeness. How would adding ysalmiri dna make something More force sensative?

 

DOH!!! Sorry slight typo there. I meant to say a Force Negative creature. Essentially a Bad Ass battle droid with a force negative bubble around it.

 

Here's another idea, the Jedi has to protect a diplomatic envoy in a hostile area, but he isn't cleared to attack the hostiles. In effect, all he's allowed to do by the Council is to deflect and make sure the diplomats don't get hurt. He can defend himself and his charges, but he's not cleared to return fire. That can get really nasty really quick (kind of like that one mission on Starcraft where you had to protect the Zerg hive long enough for it to attack the Protoss, but the Zerg were attacking you and you couldn't fire back because none of the hive cluster was supposed to be destroyed, really sucky mission). Tangent!

 

Given my players low level, I'm trying to avoid combat as much as possible in the beginning, since it'll only meet with death. As of right now, the highest level character in my group is about 1000 xp from level 3. Hardly ready for Sithlords and Dark Side adepts.
Thankfully, most of them realize this. They are currently working to uncover the identity of one of the shadowy figures that are pulling the strings around them. Perhaps once they are equiped with more knowledge, they will be ready for something more physical, but until then, they're just asking to roll up new characters.

 

If you want to have a small combat challenge, one to make you PCs think their getting somewhere without throwing Darth Maul at them, try a low level (1st or 2nd) Dark Jedi that has gone against his master's wishes and challenges the PCs to a duel. This fool is so sure in his "Mastery of the Darkside" that he thinks he can take the PCs on himself. If the challenge is two easy, you can make it a pair of them or have some of whatever crunchy underlings you master villian is using come along as backup. This encounter is especially good at a point where they discover a truly important clue.