How to Fix a Sinking Political Party (or how to save the Democrat Party)

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by TripleB, Nov 4, 2004.

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  1. TripleB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    I posted the below in another thread and it was generally well recieved as it was not one of my trademark partisan attacks (which I do enjoy making ;) but will throw this out to you all, in hopes of inspiring some real discussion on what went wrong, how to fix the problem and how to come back.

    Because I do beleive that the way US Politics are set up, you really do need a strong opposition party to really make things work, and the path the Democrats have embarked on has been nothing short of disastrous the last few years.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Would we like to turn this debate to WHY your side lost?

    I will tell you why, but I fear a couple of you are going to cry and whine and complain about it, but will tell you anyway.


    THe Democrat Party lost it's soul.


    They have no moral standing in the United States. They sacrificed it to save Clinton back in 98/99. And as exit polling shows now that Moral Issues were on the top of voters minds, where else coudl have have voted but for the GOP and George W Bush. The Democrats proved that doing what was right is not on their agenda.

    Remember how you people were all jumping down the GOP back in 1998, after they went thru with Impeachment even though it supposedly cost them 1998 elections?

    How the media was doing everything they could to bury the GOP back then, when they did what was right over what was popular? (wow, is this becoming a recurring theme, didn't I drum that against Kerry a lot?)

    How, in the aftermath of passing the articles, the media was throwing it out there everywhere about how the GOP had a 19% approval rating amongst American Citizens?

    ANd now look at how things turned out.

    Clinton, the supposed savior of the Democrat Party continues to be the Grim Reaper for the Democrats, as in the past two elections, his appearances in tight battleground races spelled doom for the Democrats.

    The GOP, the hated party that dared go thru with Impeachment when all the polls and media said "Do it and you will pay for it" all of a sudden being embraced by the rest of the nation?

    The Democrat Party sacrificed it's soul to save Clinton. And while the short term effect was good (yes, you all did save CLinton) it destroyed a foundation that the Democrat Party were going to need when 9/11 eventually happened. No longer does anyone look to them as "the force of good".

    Joe Lieberman even commented on this. You all ignored him.

    Instead you embraced the likes of Michael Moore. You put a San Fransisco "Moderate" named Nancy Pelosi as your face of the Party, whom has said she is in the mainstream of America more often then I can count.

    This is not the sort of thing you are just going to "get back" on a whim.

    You have to sever all connections to the fringe extreme left wing. These people are what not only are bringing down your party. They are bringing down the party.

    And you can't do it overnight. You have to be incremental.

    Go for one or two senate seats in 2006. And 3 or 4 House seats at a time.

    Put up true moderates, people whom are really in the middle and mainstream.

    Kick the New England elitists out of the Judiciary Committee and put in what remaining Midwestern and Southern Democrat's you have left there. Yes, that means you will have Southern and Midwester Democrats actually voting to send judicial nominee's to the full Senate for a vote, and it is there where the case must be made, not at MoveOn.Org and PFAW rallies.

    That, the fact that something as important as the judiciary is in the hands of San Fransiscan's and New Englanders is something that people in the SOuth and MidWest don't want deciding for them. Nothing is going to look worse for the Democrats, as they are going to try to make a case to Southern and Midwesterners that they share their values, when people whom do share their values come under attack by Ted Kennedy during Confirmation hearings.

    What else? Well, there needs to be a break. People like Nancy Pelos
  2. MetalGoldKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 4
    That's not appropriate. If you have a problem with another user, take it up with that user via PM or contact a moderator.
  3. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5

    They have no moral standing in the United States. They sacrificed it to save Clinton back in 98/99. And as exit polling shows now that Moral Issues were on the top of voters minds, where else coudl have have voted but for the GOP and George W Bush. The Democrats proved that doing what was right is not on their agenda.


    No moral standing? You do realize that John Kerry got 48% of the vote, do you not?


    Clinton, the supposed savior of the Democrat Party continues to be the Grim Reaper for the Democrats, as in the past two elections, his appearances in tight battleground races spelled doom for the Democrats.


    You should enter the Olympics, TripleB. That leap of logic will win you first place in the triple jump. Your assumption of causality is ridiculus (I keep seem to be using that word when I reply to your posts).

    You have to sever all connections to the fringe extreme left wing. These people are what not only are bringing down your party. They are bringing down the party.

    Left Wing is Michael Moore. He is shrill, but he is not far left. Far left is the people who protest nukes outside of the White House and engage in that type of thing. Fringe Extreme Left Wing would be those environmental terrorist people. Please get that straight.

    Go for one or two senate seats in 2006. And 3 or 4 House seats at a time.

    Put up true moderates, people whom are really in the middle and mainstream.


    How do Democrats have 44 seats in the Senate if they are not mainstream?

    Kick the New England elitists out of the Judiciary Committee and put in what remaining Midwestern and Southern Democrat's you have left there. Yes, that means you will have Southern and Midwester Democrats actually voting to send judicial nominee's to the full Senate for a vote, and it is there where the case must be made, not at MoveOn.Org and PFAW rallies.

    Cases don't get made in the Senate. Nobody listens to anybody when they give a speech there.

    That, the fact that something as important as the judiciary is in the hands of San Fransiscan's and New Englanders is something that people in the SOuth and MidWest don't want deciding for them. Nothing is going to look worse for the Democrats, as they are going to try to make a case to Southern and Midwesterners that they share their values, when people whom do share their values come under attack by Ted Kennedy during Confirmation hearings.

    I doubt very much that the Democrats want to share your values.

    I think the Democrats will simply stake out there current position and wait for the Republican's values to tick off the rest of the country.



  4. TripleB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    Metal Gold Knight said

    Can someone please stop this TripleB guy from posting? PLEASE?!

    Then just don't respond. There is a part of me that hopes you don't. Please don't listen to my advice. Just don't act so suprised come 11.07.2004 when my predictions pan out.

    Jediflyer said

    No moral standing? You do realize that John Kerry got 48% of the vote, do you not?

    Not enough to win when the other guy gets 51%. Not enough when Kerry's support was buyoed more on things which won't be there in the future (namely, George W Bush).

    You should enter the Olympics, TripleB. That leap of logic will win you first place in the triple jump. Your assumption of causality is ridiculus (I keep seem to be using that word when I reply to your posts).

    Your right, of course.

    Clinton went into office with Dems controlling all houses of congress, majority of State governorships and legislatures.

    Lost it in 1994.

    Didn't get it back in 1996.

    Needed the media to claim that because the GOP did not increase their majoritys in 1998 that it was some sort of political disaster for the GOP, to the point that Newt reisgned over it.

    In 2002, his efforts to prop up Democrat Candidates in the Governorships and Senate resulted in
    *** Gray Davis went from being up 10 pts to winning aby about 5
    ***Jennifer Granhold had a similar effect.
    ***Norm COleman (R) came back to defeat Walter Mondal
    ***Jeb Bush was tied with mcBride in Florida when CLinton showed up, Bush would win by over 10 points
    ***He went to Hawaii to buoy the Dem's and instead Hawaii elected it's first GOP Governor since it became a state.

    ANd of course, he did such a great job at rallying the GOP and getting them out to vote iN Ohio, didn't he?

    Left Wing is Michael Moore. He is shrill, but he is not far left. Far left is the people who protest nukes outside of the White House and engage in that type of thing. Fringe Extreme Left Wing would be those environmental terrorist people. Please get that straight.

    Nope. Remember when Bush was "tainted" by Pat Buchanan and Pat Roberston and that somehow cost him the election? Well, turn around is fair play. Deal with it. BY excommunicating him. Gaurantee censures to any House or Senate member whom has contact with him. Strip leaders of their position.

    Untill you do so, you make it all too easy for people like me to Demogogue you. In case you did not notice, America repudiated Michael Moore.

    How do Democrats have 44 seats in the Senate if they are not mainstream?

    Because they are losing them. 12 years ago there were either 15 or 18 SOuthern Democrats. When the next congress convenes, you will have 4. And the Democrats you have in the Midwest are similarly going to suffer the same fate if you don't change course.

    Cases don't get made in the Senate. Nobody listens to anybody when they give a speech there.

    Oh yes they can. Ask Robert Bork.

    I doubt very much that the Democrats want to share your values.

    Your right. Pro-God, Pro Gun, Pro America values are certainly values the Dem's don't want, which is why you got crushed on 11.02.04. You are aware that polls show Moral Issues were high up there? Meaning that those people your side hate, the Christian Fundamentalists, came out in force?

    I think the Democrats will simply stake out there current position and wait for the Republican's values to tick off the rest of the country.

    ANd if the GOP continues to pick up seats and wins?

    But hey, be my guest and don't take my advice.

  5. Lone-Sith Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2002
    "How to Fix a Sinking Political Party (or how to save the Democrat Party)"

    that's simple. Just wait around until ol'Bush nukes Iran and north Korea calling it his 'jihad' and I am sure the country will swing back to the left away from religious conservatives
  6. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Democrats don't need to become conservatives to win.

    What they need is a voice for the liberal that doesn't sound like the above poster.
  7. somethingfamiliar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 5
    Democrats don't need to become conservatives to win.

    That's what I think. We don't need to share their positions, we just need to use their techniques to voice our positions more powerfully. There's a lot that the left has to offer in terms of a powerful, legible ideology and the Democratic party has not been taking advantage of that. Some of it won't be popular, but this election proved that "I don't necessarily agree with him, but at least I know where he stands" will still get you some votes in the ballot box.

    The Dems shouldn't be afraid to take losses in future elections if they're using those campaigns to define their message more strongly. They're losing them anyway now, so should at least be getting something out of the experience.

    We need to define our brand better so we can market it more effectively. I hope we cultivate our unique qualities to present a strong competing product instead of simply aping the competition's product.
  8. Cyprusg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2002
    star 4
    I question anybody's intelligence when they think in broad generalizations.

    Kerry lost because he lost the battle of perceptions. Bush defined him and Kerry couldn't shake that. Add that to the Bush administration's scare tactics and using patriotism as a defense for their policies, chances are good people will buy into that. It works in a time of war, but you can only fool the people for so long after that.

    The Democratic party will turn around because everything moves in cycles. There's always a backlash, there's always a social movement, it'll come back around in time, only for the Republican party to come back after that. My only hope is that somewhere along the lines we break away from the idiocy of a two political party system and have a more fair representation of the american people in Congress.

    But certainly no reasonable person would call the Democratic party a "sinking party".
  9. Bubba_the_Genius Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2002
    star 4
    Most certainly a reasonable man can say that the Democratic Party is sinking. It's been out of power for a generation. One could say that for every Reagan there has been a Clinton, and for every Limbaugh there has been a Franken...

    ...but Clinton had to govern as a moderate after the Republicans gained a majority in both houses of Congress in 1994. Reagan actually has a legacy, particularly in terms of a revitalized economy and military and in the collapes of the Evil Empire. Clinton has no legacy.

    ...and Al Franken? He's just like Rush Limbaugh, but without the audience.


    I think as long as the party is in such deep denial about the causes of its defeats it will continue to experience defeats.

    To which I say, good and keep it up. I don't want to see the Democratic party fixed. I don't care about parties as much as I care about the country as a whole, and the country is better off with Democrats out of power.
  10. Cyprusg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2002
    star 4
    Most certainly a reasonable man can say that the Democratic Party is sinking. It's been out of power for a generation. One could say that for every Reagan there has been a Clinton, and for every Limbaugh there has been a Franken...

    GIVE ME A FRICKIN BREAK! They lost 4 senate seats Bubba, just four! They lost 3 seats in the house! Come back to reality Bubba!
  11. ShaddowHunter Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2001
    star 1
    "To which I say, good and keep it up. I don't want to see the Democratic party fixed. I don't care about parties as much as I care about the country as a whole, and the country is better off with Democrats out of power."

    Right, thank you so kindly Bubba, for those ummm most amusing comments. Flaming is not tolerated.


    Ladies and gentlmen, the Democratic Party needs new leadership, young leadership, young vioces. A new direction. A new plan of attack on the right. For now, place gay marriage on the back burner. And that is not to say forget it. The Democrats should learn to pick their battles. Iraq didn't cost Kerry the election, gay marriage did. The African American vote along with other minority votes Kerry was relying on, did not materialize because of religious views. Most southern blacks are strong baptists. Most Hispanics are catholics. These groups do not believe in gay marriage. Democrats should concentrate on demestic issues. Social Security, health care, medication for the elderly. Outsourcing of jobs. Keep jobs at home. Reach out to the minorities. I wouldn't worry much with regards to the war in Iraq. Bush has shot himself in the foot time and time again, concerning Iraq. He will do it again. I only pray it doesn't cost us an enormous amount of our most precious resource - the US soldier. The American people will soon get tired of the war. The American pubilc wants answers to domestic issues. The Democrats have themselves to blame for their blunder in the election. They need to shake up the party and start a new battle plan with younger, more idealistic men and women with visions for a better America.
  12. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    The Democrats do need to make some changes, Im not saying they need to swing to the right, but changes are in order.

    They could play tit for tat with Republicans by making the word Conservative appear to be a bad thing, sort of like the Republicans made liberal seem like a dirty word. Make conservatives look like Anne Coulter and Alan Keyes they way they made liberals look like Michael Moore.

    Embrace the Christian Left, bring up leaders and politicians from them and put them in the forefront. No need to worry about the Christian Left being as overbearing as its rightwing counterpart, the movement is very secular. This could help win some of the religous votes.

    Lighten the Gun Control measures, this is hurting the Democrats in the mid-western and southern states, badly. In many rural areas families have a hunting tradition and many families depend on hunting as their source of food in the winter months. Very few will argue with an assault rifle ban though, even the police would probably agree with this. No officer wants to go to a house with a guy holding an AK-47.

    Bring the young charismatic Democrats up and put them in the spot light. Barak Obama is someone to watch in this party, he could be the key to the future.

    End the government flow of money to abortion clinics. I know this one wont set well, but its the way it needs to go. This will help take the Religous Rights grip off many "family values" communities. There are those who dont like abortion and most certainly dont like their tax dollars going to support it. Let insurance companies and special organizations fund them instead. It is a large but necessary step to regain footing.

    Formulate a southern strategy, regain the former back bone of the Party. Considering there are alot of poor disenfranchised southerners, and alot of minorities in the south, this shouldnt be too hard. Many southerners I believe dont like some of the Democrats moral issues, and the perception they have of the democrats. Believe me the scare tactic the Republicans used of wanting to ban the Bible worked.

    Expose the Republicans for what they are, Politicians. The Republicans have successfully painted themselves as friends of the little guy and the Democrats as socialists wanting to turn the USA into the USSA. Expose these untruths.

    Personally I have no issue against homosexuality, and I feel bad for alot of people who are homosexual after this election. The media is saying this issue is likely the one that cost Kerry the election, unfortunatley the Party won't be fighting for their causes so hard for quite a while, this is a reform the Party will undergo as they distance themselves from this issue. I sincerly hope the Green or Libertarian Party is able to pick them up and gain a large, healthy and active base.

    Actively embrace the military: This does not mean embrace wars. Many Americans felt Kerry and the Democrats didnt support our troops, Bush played that $87B thing to the hilt, even though he didnt give the full truth. High ranking Democrats spending the holidays with the soldiers in Iraq, Afghanistan and North Korea will help relieve that image. The Republicans are likely to scream publicity stunt, but this could be played tit for tat by reminding America of Bush's very expensive landing on an Aircraft Carrier and his trip to Iraq on Thanksgiving with a plastic turkey for the soldiers, both were nothing more than publicity stunts.
  13. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    The denial from the Democrats is overwhelming.
    I have been listening to it for days now. They all want BUSH to reach across the table to build the bridge. Wrong. The Democrats lost the Presedential election, the Senate and the House. This says VOLUMES. It is the Democrats who need to first actually COME to the table and second be the ones to reach. Bush's job is to be as moderate as possible while maintaining his foundation...a foundation that every American can actually recognize.

    The Senator of Il. Obama? HE reflects the Democrats of long ago.,..the JFK's and the FDR's. He has class, dignity, and charisma...which is what is lacking in todays Democratic Party. If the Party can begin to follow his lead and become more moderate as a whole then they may be a viable Party for this nation. Until that? What you see is what you get. Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Dean, Michael Moore, Kerry, Edwards...

    Oh, for that "person" who referred to Bubba as trailer Park trash? I'd watch you say...not only will untrue insults not be tolerated but Bubba could run circles around your apparent "intellect".


    EDIT:

    I almost forgot the most important thing the Democratic Party needs! A backbone. The strength and resolve to be able to face evil and tyranny head on. Without appeasement. Without waffling. I have made this case for months.
  14. Nrf-Hrdr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2000
    star 4
    The red/blue state split shows that the US is like two entirely different countries right now. That split suggests that Republicans do a perfectly good job of pleasing one of those countries, and the Democrats apparently (would) do a perfectly good job of pleasing the other. The Republicans can't legitimately be called "the choice of the American people", only "the choice of the larger of the two American cultures". Exactly the same could be said of the Democrats, had they won.

    In my view the problem isn't necessarily with the state of the Democratic party, but with the fact that the US is too large and ideologically divided for the entire population to ever be adequately served by a single centralised government.
  15. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    The problem for the Democrats, really, is that America is gradually turning into Brazil - a wealthy, enclaved, elite professional and ruling class on the one side, and the poor and working poor on the other hand.

    The death of the blue collar middle class in America is going to prove to be the death of America, in my view. These were the people who powered the engine of industrial growth and consumer demand growth in the 20th century.

    With the globalization of labor and capital, which the democrats and republicans alike were powerless to prevent, came the erosion of the working middle class that built the "American Century".

    The unions warned us: globalization really means one thing--trading away America's long term economic future for cheap consumer goods in the short term.

    The democrats sold out organized labor under the mistaken belief that the new service economy was going to offer the same kind of prosperity in the 21st century that industrial manufacturing offered in the 20th. Consequently, the Democrats have nothing of value to offer the working poor. In a service economy in which well-paying manufacturing jobs are disappearing, the ruling elite does not want to pay its nannies and janitors and the people who make lattes a living wage. We already pay $4 for a latte (the value add of marketing and packaging to support the professional class). Why would we pay $6 just so employees at the corner cafe can have comprehensive healthcare for themselves and their families?

    So the Republican elite have thrown the bone of "cultural values" to the bottom tiers of income earners to avoid paying $6 for a latte. And the Democrats have just sat by and watched it happen.

    And the rest of us have supported this process by agreeing not to talk too much about how our shoes are made by prison labor in China or 8 year old girls in Malaysia instead of unionized Americans earning a respectable wage that's enough to support families.

    And now America has a massive budget deficit and massive trade deficit because it has nothing of value to offer the world other than consumer spending. Because we no longer make anything of value, we've just become a giant sponge, a parasite on the globe, sucking up most of the world's energy and consumer demand - and of course most of the world's debt.
  16. BenduHopkins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    The Democratic Party has not lost its soul, and there is no way to prove that they are outnumbered. They got almost 50 percent of the vote, and it has been proven that they are more informed than republicans. The fact is, they are correct on many issues that Republicans are incorrect. The Republicans are on the wrong side of history when it comes to morality. Democrats associate the word "morality" with religious doctrine, which is why polls indicate they care less about morality. But they should start checking that box in the affirmative, because it actually paints a more accurate picture.

    The truth is, Democrats have very strong morals, if you define morals as ethical beliefs about the treatment of people and the environment. We KNOW we are right, and this election proves nothing to us.

    This election has proven 3 things:

    A) We need voter receipts and more accounting for verification of election results. There is no reason for us to completely trust that there wasn't electronic alteration of the numbers by 3 to 10 percent. I'm not talking something that would hold things up, just the online ability for local coordinators to verify the reportings, and for voters to verify their vote worked.

    B) 52-54% of America might not be ready for Dems at this time, but at another time, they will have our chance to get that extra few points.

    C) Democrats need to push their agenda in the form of morality, because that's what it is. And in fact, it is more in accordance with the Bible than the "morals" of the right. This just needs to be spelled out for enough religious people to feel like Democrats are not an opposing force to the Bible.
  17. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Jabba and Bendu,

    I do agree with both you. We all have to recognize that ALMOST half of the voters voted Democrat. Perhaps we Conservatives are tooting our horns a bit too loudly. ;)

    But still...as I think we all agree...some major reform is needed in that Party. I have never really questioned the Morality of Democrats...rather the overall Class and Charisma of the political leaders of the Party.

    John Kerry showed a much needed level of class by conceding and presenting a wonderful concession speech.

    Edwards on the other hand did the exact opposite, IMO.
  18. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    I have never really questioned the Morality of Democrats...rather the overall Class and Charisma of the political leaders of the Party.

    I can definitely agree with that. I think that is one of the major reasons why so many Democrats are looking to Obama even though he just stepped on the national stage.

    It hasn't really been the Democratic issues that were wrong so much as inept leaders.

  19. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Edwards may have been distracted somewhat on Wednesday by the fact that his wife had just been diagnosed with invasive breast cancer.
  20. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    You know how much thats go to suck?

    First, you find out you've wasted the last year and a half of your life on a failed endeavor, then you find out your wife has cancer.

    And I thought I had a bad day.

  21. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    A) We need voter receipts and more accounting for verification of election results. There is no reason for us to completely trust that there wasn't electronic alteration of the numbers by 3 to 10 percent. I'm not talking something that would hold things up, just the online ability for local coordinators to verify the reportings, and for voters to verify their vote worked.

    Absolutely not! Such a system would be ripe for voter intimidation and vote buying.

    No documentation of a citizen's vote should be taken away from teh polling place except by authorized poll workers. Otherwise, someone who wants to bribe a person to vote for a candidate can also verify whether they actually did vote for them, as could someone who has threatened violence to to intimidate a person to vote a certain way. That's aprt of the whole idea behind a secret ballot.

    Electronic voting by itself isn't bad. However, the current methods used in the machines are unverifiable by humans. Instead, the following system would be secure and efficient:

    The system would take two different machines. The first would produce the paper ballot containing both a machine-readable (i.e. barcode) and a human-readable version. After this ballot is created, the voter can verify that it says who they want to vote for, and if it is inaccurate, they can destroy it and create a new one.

    The second machine would be for the sole purpose of counting the ballots. It would include a barcode scanner to allow the voter to re-verify their vote, and then the voter inserts the ballot into the machine, where it is counted and the paper ballot is stored in a locked box.

    In the event of a recount, the recount can be performed by either (or both of) the machines or humans. The ballots would all be consistent, preventing the "hanging chad" problem, and the vote could theoretically be 100% human verified.

    Kimball Kinnison
  22. TripleB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    They could play tit for tat with Republicans by making the word Conservative appear to be a bad thing, sort of like the Republicans made liberal seem like a dirty word. Make conservatives look like Anne Coulter and Alan Keyes they way they made liberals look like Michael Moore.

    That was already done.

    The entire 90's, the media did that. Rather then change who they are, the above groups stood on what they stand for, whether it was the Christian Coalition, whom the Clinton's managed to demonize; or the National Rifle Association, whom prevailed in the face of overwhelming media attacks against them. Instead of claiming to be moderates (like the LIberals do) they stood on what they believed and the american people are with them now.

  23. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    I like your idea for the voting machines, KK.

    Really, I don't understand why it is so hard to get some verifiablity into the system.

  24. Vezner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2001
    star 5
    How to Fix a Sinking Political Party (or how to save the Democrat Party)

    Why would you want to save it? :confused: :p
  25. BenduHopkins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    But still...as I think we all agree...some major reform is needed in that Party. I have never really questioned the Morality of Democrats...rather the overall Class and Charisma of the political leaders of the Party.

    Yes, social isolation works both ways. Dems may say the red are isolated, but we are also isolating ourselves from them, choosing to stick with people who agree with us in the blue states than talk to people in middle america about things we agree upon. As hard as it is to do so sometimes, Democrats need to be more patient when opposing beliefs that they disagree with. I think Kerry did a fine job of that when he explained that he can not legislate religious belief, but that is confusing for many religious people. The same message, but in a different way perhaps.
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