How to Make the Love Story More Believable

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Binary_Sunset, May 18, 2002.

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  1. plocool Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2001
    star 3
    People love those who do terrible things everyday. It's just the way things are when someone has deep feelings. We forget the inequities. And, yes, Ani's mom was killed viciously making his actions understandable but not tollerable.
    Ani killed everyone, and showed no remorse and blamed Obi wan for his actions instead.

    Padme wants to help him. She like him, maybe loves him, but she will change those ideas when she realizes what's she's gotten herself into.
    Things like that happen all the time.
  2. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    Slave2,

    Heh, trying so hard to defend that movie that you dug yourself a little hole, I see.

    Just admit your error and stop trying to weasel out of it. As Binary said earlier, the whole point of that scene, including the freakin' Empire theme played during it, is to show that Anakin is showing Dark side tendencies. If it wasn't, then we can start complaining about that - a whole new can of worms.

    I guess Qui Gon was yelling "Anakin no!!!" because Anakin was about to trip over a rock or something, right?
  3. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    SLAVE2, the Death Star was a military target. It was not a civilian target. I'm not a pacifist. I'm a strict just war theorist.

    I'll use your own logic. If Obiwan had dropped down into the room with the seperatists, and killed them all with his lightsaber, that would have been ok. Because they were going to commit an act of war, and Obiwan was making a pre-emptive strike to stop it? Like Luke destroying the Death Star before it fired? So surely you would allow Obiwan to kill those people, but not Anakin kill Tuskens once they have killed his mom?
  4. FreddyFly Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 1999
    >These are two inexperienced young adults >basically thrown together due to other >circumstances.
    >
    >You ever read Romeo and Juliet?

    I don't think the problem in AOTC is the concept ("star-crossed" fairy tale lovers), so much as the execution.

    Quite simply, the love story represented the WORST acting, directing and screenwriting I have ever seen. I can think of nothing I've seen, not even homemade films by sophmore film students, that was this astoundingly bad. Whatever Lucas' intentions may have been, he utterly failed to achieve them in these parts of the film.

    I actually liked AOTC a lot. I saw it in a packed house and there was plenty of cheering and applause at the end of the movie. Nevertheless, there were gales of laughter during every Ani & Padme scene!

  5. Corusca-Gem Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    Binary Sunset wrote:

    "Neither would I feel sorry for someone who leaps off a cliff and dies"


    Now Binary, we are in agreement that to have Padme saying things like "You are only human," would seem inappropriate, and we also think it is disturbing or unrealistic that Padme would be most reluctant (and perhaps you would say totally unwilling) to marry someone who just killed children and women. We cannot understand why GL would have Padme do this.

    But consider this, the quote from you above regarding lack of compassion for someone who would jump off a cliff. Well what for instance would have to happen in your own life to make you do such a thing (jump off a cliff)? Probably a medical condition\chemical inbalance in your brain - as why would you do such a thing if you were not ill? There is a big step between being heartbroken or sad, and ending your life. Now if you made a film above showing a character showing no compassion for someone else who jumped off a cliff, a situation I find to be tragic, I would think it was an odd circumstance, and could have been written much better, etc.

    But the difference here is that I do believe that George Lucas obviously knows that killing women and children is a most horrible thing, which makes the fact that Padme accepts it in at least enough to marry the guy soon after even more puzzling. It is if GL had a character do something that seems unrealistc considering the assumption of how he views murdering kids and women.

    Perhaps they just were overwhelmed by the state of everything collapsing around them - the darkness falling. Much the way many here on Earth would be if WWIII started - that could rush a marriage or two.

  6. Corusca-Gem Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    Slave2 wrote:


    "abmccray, how exactly do you know the women didnt do anything to Shmi? Anakin should have picked the most likely suspect from 20 Tuskens looking at him?"



    I am not abmccray, but I will say:

    Well at least in the novelization Anakin flat out says that he knows that the children and women are not fighters, only the males, as he is splilling out remorse for what he had done.

    Now I do not know if the novel is canon or not, but this certantly implies that he knew they didn't hurt her.
  7. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    "Nevertheless, there were gales of laughter during every Ani & Padme scene!"

    Not one laugh at my theater. Hmmm...perhaps you saw yours with a packed house full of those excellent scriptwriters from the guild. ;)

    "Shane, I'll have little Rebels."

    Good and don't nickname your little binary "Anchorhead" either.

    Binary: How's my little Anchorhead doing?

    Little B: Dad?! Not the Star Wars stuff again. That movie is soooo ancient. You know Lucas did just release The Special Edition #5 yesterday though and it flies!

    Binary: Nooooooooooooo!

    :)
  8. Corusca-Gem Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    abmccray,


    Did Anakin actually admit to doing this in pleasure?
  9. JBFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    after reading the first post...here is my reply



    THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP FOR ME....tell George and he will put you on board to direct episode 3 cause hes obviously not good enough or even qualified to direct HIS OWN DAMN MOVIE ....

    THE LOVE STORY IS SHORT INTENTIONALLY.....YOU PEOPLE DONT GET IT you dont get star wars or anakin at all.....HE IS OBSESSED...he has a problem...his emotions mix in with his abilities and that combines to create one hell of an awful mix. His love is an outlet for his obsessive behaviour...He rushes into things.....doesnt think.....he chooses the QUICK AND EASY PATH

    FOR GOD SAKE PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU POST...ALL MEMBERS THINK....USE YOUR HEADS...UNDERSTAND THE MOVIE AND STAR WARS BEFORE MAKING STUPID POSTS WHERE YOU THINK YOU COULDVE MADE A BETTER MOVIE BECAUSE YOU CANT! YOUR HERE POSTING IN A MESSAGE BOARD AND LUCAS IS IN CALI MAKING BILLIONS....WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE!
  10. Corusca-Gem Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    Plocool wrote that Anakin:

    "killed everyone, and showed no remorse and blamed Obi wan for his actions instead. "


    But a point here in this thread and the movie was that Anakin did have some remorse. I just would like them to have the remorse be more apparent, as it was so intermixed with his anger that it was hard to see. But epecially in the cut scene and in the novel there is more remorse.

    In talking with a friend after the movie, it is interesting that he seemed to notice the remorse more than the anger, and I noticed the anger more than the remorse. In fact I look forward to the second viewing to see if there was more remorese there than I thought. And of course this is hinging on if the part is acted well.

  11. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    SLAVE2 wrote: "If Obiwan had dropped down into the room with the seperatists, and killed them all with his lightsaber, that would have been ok. Because they were going to commit an act of war, and Obiwan was making a pre-emptive strike to stop it?

    No. There is nothing wrong with seccession.

    "Like Luke destroying the Death Star before it fired? So surely you would allow Obiwan to kill those people, but not Anakin kill Tuskens once they have killed his mom?"

    The Death Star had already fired. It had massacred the entire population of Alderaan. Luke stopped it before it could do it again.

    Surely you are jesting with me, SLAVE2. In the 19th century, the US cavalry would massacre entire villages of Indians (men, women, and children) because some members of the village had murdered people. Do you really agree with the cavalry massacring little girls? Would you murder a little girl? Is the only good Indian a dead Indian? Is the only good little girl one whose head you've chopped off?
  12. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    Corusca, I just fast forwarded to that point...

    ANAKIN

    (Empire theme plays)I killed them, I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. (Palpatine theme plays)Not just the men, but the women, the children too. (Empire theme swells)They're like animals - I slaughtered them like animals! I hate them!

    The novel (or orginal script, I believe)expounds on the fact that he enjoyed it.



  13. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Calm down JB. Besides, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? ARE YOU A MOD?

    I loved Clones, yet Binary did not. Calm down. ;)
  14. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    LOL, Shane! The Super-Special, New and Shiny, Ultra-Deluxe Editions of the OT! LOL!
  15. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    "THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP FOR ME....tell George and he will put you on board to direct episode 3 cause hes obviously not good enough or even qualified to direct HIS OWN DAMN MOVIE .... "

    We said to get someone better. If I'm a better director by that time, yes, yes I would take the task. I bet you that when/if I recut Episode 2, people would agree that my cut was better than Lucas'.

    It is ignorance that says that Lucas created what Star Wars is now on his own. Kirshner, Kurtz, and Kasdan had just as much or MORE of a hand in creating what Star Wars is today. We think that Lucas needs to get off his high horse, stop listening to only to suck up fans and yes men, and do what he did back in 79 - pass the baton onto someone else more qualified.
  16. Corusca-Gem Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    abmccray wrote"

    The novel (or orginal script, I believe)expounds on the fact that he enjoyed it."


    I do not think it was the novel, mabye an early script. But the film and the deleted scene that was filmed especially show that he was remorseful. And that while doing it he felt that he was out of control. But I do not recall a mention of actually enjoying it. That would be even more twisted.

    I must say that the movie was darker than I thought it would be, even if he felt remorse.
  17. Yodave27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2001
    star 4
    Binary didn't like AOTC !?!?!?!!?

    [face_shocked]

    It's the shocker of the season...... ;)



    But seriously, the Naboo scenes are necessary to the love story. It's Padme's home planet, she's comfortable there. It allows her to relax and fall in love.

    As for the tuskens, I don't think Padme knows enough about the Tuskens to see how evil the avt was. In TPM she witnesses Tuskens shooting at Anakin's pod. In AOTC she sees Cliegg Lars' floating in a chair, hears the tale of the attempted rescue and finally what they did to Shmi. I don't think she make excuses for Anakin, but she is commpassionate to him.

    And the scene with her consoling him reminded me of a twisted version on Leia and Han after Han's torture on Bespin....
  18. JBFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    REALLY.....KASDAN DID MORE THAN LUCAS

    you know next to nothing. Lucas wrote the whole damn story... ALL OF IT...4-5-6. Brackett wrote a script that was COMPLETELY SCRAPPED...Kasdan colaborated with Lucas WHO HAD ALREADY WROTE THE STORY and made the script which was approved by lucas. IT WAS HIM...do you think Kasdan wrote it..and then if lucas had a problem he would say...NO GEORGE...ITS MY MOVIE...THIS STAYS...your ignorant.

    George invented all of the characters...places and story of all of the movies....kasdan wrote the lines....some damn good ones...BUT IN NO WAY AT ALL was he more responsible for star wars's success...WHAT THE HELL KIND OF STATEMENT IS THAT...and Kirschner.....Yah...LUCAS WAS ON SET ENOUGH OF ESB...good try though...he wanted shots to look a certain way and knew his movie....knew what it was going to look like in his head...

    and Marquand your gonna say was brilliant right...WOW

    Kurtz did a whole lot too eh....just as much as McCallum for the PT...
  19. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    OK, I'd like to point out, when Anakin admitted to it, Padme had never seen a Tusken Raider, the only thing she knew about a Tusken was "they walk like men, but they are animals", and that they had kidnapped an innocent women and done unspeakable things to her. If Padme had seen the action of killing them herself, it may have been different, but she only had 1 picture of what Tuskens were and what they were like. Animals. Do you think before you eat beef thats its a calf or a fully grown one, it doesnt make a difference because its an animal right?

    "They walk like men but are animals"
    "There animals and I slaughtered them like animals"

    And if Padme had ever seen a Tusken before, you know what she would have seen? It would have been when they shot at a child, in a certain podrace for no reason. Then hears they kidnapped his mother, and had only been described as animals. Think about it from what she knows.
  20. Tar-Jinn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 1
    Oh great.
    My most favourite scene of the film...
    Anakin was mad and using the Dark Side while killing the Tuskens. That's obvious.
    But he's not Vader yet.
    In the garage, he's feeling - pangs of conscience? I mean, at first he does not really want to tell Padme what's really wrong. And what's wrong is NOT that his mother died... but that he killed those Tuskens. Didn't you see how he looks at his hands while saying he killed them? It's remorse... like "Can I really be this beast who killed those SENTIENT BEINGS?" He is to be pitied, I think.
    And Padme sees it... sees that Anakin did those terrible things, BUT also sees that he is now troubled by what he did more than by what they did to him. And who is she to judge? Yes, he felt pleasure then; but yes, he is feeling remorse now. What happened, happened. Should she endlessly think how she should have armed the Naboo so that the Federation attack would never have happened? I mean, because she had not, many of her people died in TPM!
    The important thing at this point is not to endlessly remind Anakin what he did, but to ensure he does not do it in the future.

    Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love...


    And it is her compassion for Anakin, like Luke's feeling for Han and Leia in ESB, that brings her downfall: like mother, like son. She becomes the bride to the devil... what was that about the road to hell?
    I want to see how she reacts when she learns the conclusion in E III.
    And while I don't know about fairy-tale princesses (who generally fall in love with people who come to their castles and awaken them from 100-year sleeps by kissing them... or exterminate the last members of sentient species - dragons, I mean), but didn't Juliet continue to love Romeo after he killed a kinsman of hers?



    And here's what I like and don't like about the romance:
    I liked the idea that they fell in love that fast. This showed that Anakin has some serious problems with his Jedi training... On Padme's side, I liked how she did not want to acknowledge she loved him throughout the whole movie... she tried to be the responsible one, and it took her to the brink of death. So, for a change, she would behave irrationally. This eventually caused even greater problems, but she could not have known that.

    I liked the first meeting on Coruscant... Here, the audience laughed - but it was a sympathetic laugh - when Padme told Anakin "You'll be always the little boy I knew." That must have hurt his ego!
    The packing scene was OK. Padme becoming aware of her effect on Anakin... and Anakin's on her.
    The cruiser part was OK. A bit about the Jedi philosophy that I really liked.
    The arrival at Naboo. Padme saying she somewhat misses the years she spent governing, unlike the normal people; Anakin assuring her she did the right thing. Perhaps he's assuring himself as well?
    The Queen scene. Padme's "He's just a Padawan learner." LOL. Here's Anakin, the Chosen One, the Arrogant One... and such a blow! On her part, she's assuring herself she's still the boss. Perhaps she can even rule over her feelings?
    The first kiss is too fast... but it's not only the audience that recognizes it! It's the characters as well.
    The picnic scene. I liked the politics talk. The shaak scene I could have do without. Or perhaps that's just the worst CGI in the film.
    The dinner scene was OK.

    The fireside scene was awful. Mainly, I think, because of Padme's dress and the intimate atmosphere. It would have been much better somewhere on the outside.
    Couldn't "Without you, I can't breathe" be worked somehow else into the romance?
    The nightmare scene was... disturbing. But the one after was OK, until the end of movie.
  21. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    Slave2,

    Since you're changing your argument, are you admitting that your original one was wrong?
  22. JBFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    hey abm

    then dont watch the damn movie...

    and hold on to your OT with care and DONT POST IN THE PREQUEL FORUMS
  23. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    What did I change? ?[face_plain] I'm simply trying to make people think about what Padme knew of Tuskens, and why she would be sympathetic to Anakin. Padme knows:

    1) They walk like men but are Animals
    2) They shot at an innocent boy, and other podracers for fun
    3) They killed 26 people who went out searching for an innocent women
    4) Kidnapped an innocent women who was just going about her life, and didnt awful things to her

    Try and think of the image Padme has in her head about what these creatures are, and how she knows Anakin to be a nice caring person who she loves.
  24. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Abmccray, I meant to tell you that I read your long AOTC diary and review--that is some great stuff! You know what you're talking about. I'd love to see an AOTC edit done by yourself. My only fear is that, after editing out all the gimpy stuff, there'd only be about 30 minutes left...
  25. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    JBFett: Deal with it.

    We're trying to have a discussion here. I don't know what you're trying to do.
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