How to Make the Love Story More Believable

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Binary_Sunset, May 18, 2002.

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  1. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    Son of the tear, she had a motherly affection for Anakin in TPM.

    The difference between a 10 year old boy and a 14 year old girl is RIDICULOUSLY high. Her being romantically attracted to him at that age (the age in which women naturally like OLDER guys) makes no sense in itself.
  2. GS335 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2001
    star 4
    The love story, as well as the issue with his mother, just shows how possessive and attached Anakin is to things. He is this way with his mother and Padme, and eventually, with the darkside. That is the wrong type of love to have, which eventually leads to the darkside. It makes one greedy, which is not good.

    Compassion is apart of true love. Luke had it for his father, and its this compassion that ultimately saves Anakin from darkness. Padme has true love for Anakin, but Anakin has the wrong type of love for her. This will definately create problems down the road.

    While their romance definately will end traegically, there will be good to come out of it. That good is the birth of Luke and Leia. Remember, Luke is the one that saves Anakin from darkness.
  3. Darth_Scarlet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 1
    Personally, I thought the love story was believable and it was one of my favorite aspects of the movie. The fact that they "fell in love" over the course of a few days did not bother me in the least. Considering their ages, the situations they were placed in, and their past; it seemed completely plausible. Let me explain.

    Obviously, in TPM you have Anakin already developing an infatuation for Padme. Padme also develops feelings for Anakin (even if they are motherly). Furthermore, the motivations behind the feelings they have for one another in TPM seem pretty straight forward to me so lets jump to AOTC.

    In AOTC, it is easy to see Anakin's motivation from the very beginning. From the first time we see Anakin on screen, we become aware that he has been thinking (obsessing even) about Padme for a very long time. The fact that they have not seen each other for years makes this MORE believable. (What is it that they say absence does to the heart?) Add to that the fact that Anakin is a Teenager, that has assumably been living a monk like lifestyle in his years of Jedi training and that assumably he has been overprotected by Obi-wan etc., and you have it right there. Even though Anakin isn't a normal teenage boy (a demi-god, you could say given his immaculate conception and extraordinary powers) he is at least half human. You could say that given who he is, he has even stronger emotions to deal with and a more difficult time than most in controlling his "raging teen hormones". I thought that Hayden acted this beautifully and that the dialog was perfect. Yes, he did sound kind of creepy and obsessive at times, desperate in fact. That just made it more believable for me that this was the young man who would become Darth Vader. The what some are calling "cornball" lines that he gave Padme you could easily be placed in the category of "just tryin' to get laid" and would be easily believable, even if over the top, it they were in some other movie with a "love story". Given the context of this movie, they become even more ardent and intense, tragic even. I thought the acting, on Hayden's behalf, of the love story was incredibly genuine.

    At first, it may seem a little more difficult to believe that Padme, an experienced "older woman" and a senator, would fall for Anakin, especially after the Tuskan massacre. However, she is also a tragic figure in many ways and is therefore flawed and not completely rational at all times. Furthermore, she has lead a similarly lonely life of duty, doing little for herself in terms of pure enjoyment, and her last boyfriend left her for "art school". What does that tell you?

    As said before, she cares about Anakin. She see him as a boy at first, then as a young man but, still feels a motherly responsibility towards him. That's why she doesn't freak after the confession. It brings them even closer together. She has always felt partly responsible for him. His new vulnerability following the whole scene makes her want to "fix him", to help him, to "save him". It makes her care for him even more deeply. Furthermore, the intense situations they are thrown into over the course of the movie bring their emotions to the surface, make them more difficult to control, and ultimately bring them closer together. Each one seeing in the other salvation. Moreover, come on, in case the men didn't notice, Anakin is damn HOT! I think the ladies know what I'm talking about! He could have told a bunch of fart jokes to win Padme over (shades of TPM) and she still would have been "begging for a spanking" at the end of the movie if not a marriage. In terms of acting, I think Natalie did a great job of portraying someone who has frequently has to keep their emotions, true feelings, and motivations, close to the breast for the sake of diplomacy and duty. She had to grow up very quickly, the same goes for Anakin.

    Yes, they did rush into the relationship, yes, they did rush into marriage. But, I think that is just the point. It will be part of their undoing in Ep. III. (more
  4. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    Cliegg called Tuskens "Walk like men, but their mindless monsters", now anyone want to tell me why Padme would care about them getting what they deserved for killing Shmi and 26 other innocent people?
  5. Corusca-Gem Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    Padmewan McGregor wrote:

    "Corusca-Gem, you make it sound like standing by Anakin necessarily meant marrying him. There are other choices, you know."


    No. I was not trying to intertwine the two so much. Although I was providing reasons for both her standing by him, and the marriage in the same post. What I was getting at is that considering Padme's choices at the time, it could be realistic to think that she would want to stick by him and still be a part of his life going forward.

    As far as the marriage, the points from my previous post that could serve as some sort of explanation of it:

    The galaxy was falling apart around them. Tramatic events do make one live for today.

    Mabye more time did pass.

    They almost died a few times.

    He is remorseful.

    She does care for him.

    She is confused, caught between her feelings and his act, which was out of character for him up to that point.

    She feels bad for him. His mother just died, he has no father, he seems unhappy, and now he needs help big time.


    Hopefully this is clearer. I am aware that some of these points in the list above could also explain why she sticks by him, as opposed to just the marriage. But they could help her get over obstacles that would stand in the way of her getting married.
  6. son_of_the_tear Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 5
    << Son of the tear, she had a motherly affection for Anakin in TPM. >>

    Really? Interesting... because that is exactly what I said!

    She cares for Anakin and has a motherly affection for him. I said that. Ands I also went ahead to say that in AOTC, she still sees him in some ways as a little boy she wants to take care of and give him motherly affection. And that is why it is a doomed romance.

    Anakin, of course, besides really just looking for attachment, has been ga ga over her for 10 years.
  7. JOHN6370 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 1
    All lucas had to do was fallow the book more.....but if he did that alot of people would not like it as much....but the love story in the book is much better...but would make the movie much slower....
  8. SHAD0W-JEDI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3

    I think that, after this, I may give this topic a bit of a rest. In another similar thread, I believe I noted that when it comes to something like this, it is largely a matter of taste..if the romance worked for you, great..and if it didn't, well, then it didn't. It is not something easily discussed or debated, since we are not really debating a matter of logic or fact, but of emotion - does the romance, as presented on screen, resonate for you, or not? The more we get into it, the more I think we become polarized and wander afield...the vast majority of us liked or LOVED the movie overall... we simply disagree about the effectiveness of one element of it.

    However, being a long winded, stubborn, and ornery cuss, I must take at least one last stab at some of the points being raised to bolster the "romance made sense" or "it worked" POV...

    (1) The idea that Padme harbors some kind of feelings for Anakin... is really, really, really really a stretch. I believe that when AOTC opens, TEN YEARS have passed from TPM. In TPM, Anakin is central to the action, no doubt - his pod race win helps Padme and company leave Tatooine, he knocks out the shield generator, and in between he seems kind of sad and lost and "attached" to Padme. And that is about it, folks. She is, I believe, 14 to his 9 or 10 (think about that folks..what do most 14 year old girls think of ten year old boys? Any hint of romance there, you think?) At best, she might feel a big-sisterly/motherly attachment to this lost boy who spent ... a few days? a week or two..with her. And then? He goes off with the Jedi, she goes off to serve out her term as QUEEN OF AN ENTIRE PLANET, and to SERVE AS A SENATOR, etc, etc., etc. We have no indication in the movie that they so much as corresponded in the interim!!!! Very hard to believe that Padme has had Anakin on her mind much at all during those ten years. As to him... perhaps. But even there..frankly, I found GL's handling of Anakin's reactions to Padme the LEAST convincing element of TPM. Again..think 10 year old boy and 14 year old girl. Romance? Hmmmm..... But I can at least envision him carrying an idealized image of her in his head, through adolescence, etc. (Sidebar..the Jedi are around women ALL THE TIME, including some very attractive fellow Jedi students. Anakin has not learned to deal with lust/desire/attraction by now?)

    (2) I know I have covered this, but I have to repeat... GL messed up, in my opinion, in that he felt obliged to have Anakin's "Dark Side" inclinations come to the fore almost every time Anakin and Padme were together - and to use HER as the one reacting most visibly to his outbursts. I know he had a lot to accomplish, but I think the romance would have played out much more solidly if we had seen the charming Anakin with Padme and the arrogant, or petulant, or murderous Anakin with OTHERS. Not because he was being insincere, but because we are all different, to one degree or another, around different folks, and she brings out the best in him. You could then, PERHAPS, have the much discussed Tusken slaughter scene play out AFTER her heart has been captured by the "nice" Anakin. As it is now...nearly every time they are together, he says or does something that causes her to look at him with reproach, or concern, or distaste...leading up to a confession of mass murder. Hmmm....

    (3) In real life, people do all kinds of crazy, stupid, irrational things. Even smart people, grounded people, reasonable people. You can use this argument to justify almost any behavior in a movie, BUT... in truth, we generally hold movie characters to a slightly higher standard. Whether we should or not is another matter...we DO. In other words, if you want to convince at least SOME of us that a clearly supernaturally brilliant (elected ruler of a PLANET at age 14?!?!?!?!?!!!) , sensible, courageous, moral, caring, charismatic, woman like Padme, who has ruled a planet by age 24, is going to be swept off her feet by someone, you have got to REALLY do more than have her look annoyed at him every five minutes, an
  9. Canis Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    I haven't read the whole thread (too long) so I apologize if this has been covered, but the whole romance had a very troubadour feel. Love at first sight. Love that is denied by their society, but that they pursue anyway. Anguish in each other's presence when they deny their love. Anakin pledging his love left and right. All of this seems hokey to modern audiences, but it is EXACTLY how the notions of courtly love, and true love, and love at first sight came about in Western culture. Lucas is very well-read, and apparently forgot that a lot of his audience isn't. The dialogue fits in PERFECTLY with the romances of the troubadours.

    EDIT: Anakin being "damaged goods" and being a great warrior fits into the equation nicely also.
  10. Charlie_Martel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2001
    star 4
    Ahhh... how to make Star Wars, a fantasy, believable. I say it's impossible. Except for maybe people who worship Zoltan!
  11. waheennay Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2000
    star 4
    I think Padme is attracted by how honest Anakin is about his emotions, epecially for a Jedi. He lets everything out.
  12. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    I think Canis has hit it right on the head. Too many people today are expecting the 20rst century idea of romance. Of being swept off your feet and jumping in to bed 2 hours after the "Hi how are you's". This goes back to a whole different time, and a whole different mentality. I loved it!!
  13. Padmewan McGregor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 1999
    star 3
    Well, Shadow-Jedi, I think you've said everything I wanted to say, and more. Most of all, you're right that this is one of those "taste" things. Some people like Ace Ventura, Pet Detective. What can I say?

    I guess all I can say is that the way I would rank believability in this romance would have been:

    1. Acting
    2. Characterization
    3. Plot

    So the fact that the plot tells us they "should" be in love because the galaxy is in turmoil, etc. etc. doesn't really do it for me. BUT, you could have two characters who are totally not made for each other, but the actors really have some chemistry, I'll buy it.

    It also could just be that I was expecting them to take A Streetcar Named Desire and squeeze it into 30 minutes, oh and without Marlon Brando. So I had overly high expectations :b
  14. Lightsabel2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    the love story was equvilant of that in titanic weak minded fool!!!!!!
  15. Padmewan McGregor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 1999
    star 3
    the love story was equvilant of that in titanic weak minded fool!!!!!!
    Thanks, that was very insightful. I'm so glad you shared.
  16. Lightsabel2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    quite welcome you are..
  17. lori71 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    I found the love scenes beautifully acted. Hayden really is amazing.

    It's just funny that he's starred in two major motion pictures, both with potentially embarassing love scenes. In AOTC, that nightmare scene was a little off. I understood what was going on, but that didn't stop a guy at the midnight show from yelling, "Boing". And in "Life As A House", he has a hysterical shower scene. I think these kinds of scenes just show how good of an actor he is. He's willing to take risks.

    That sincerity way evident in AOTC.
  18. XV426 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 2
    Yes, the world is filled with smart people doing stupid things, but given what I know about Padme, I found it impossible to believe she would have fallen in love with Anakin after his unforgiving, disturbing confession. She was not only a planetary ruler, but spearheaded the fight to reclaim her world. That takes a tremendous amount of courage, character, and a deep sense of humanity. No, she might not have been around the block as far as intimate love goes, but how could such an unyeilding, obessesive, and ultimatley murderous brat so quickly win the heart of someone with such high values?

    You might buy it, but I don't for a second.
  19. son_of_the_tear Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 5
    Because it's a fantasy.

    A fairy tale.

    In myths and legends and fairy tales and old stories, the maiden would fall for the prince in a day or two or three and bam, they would be in love and marry.

    SW is an intergalactic myth/fairy tale.
  20. SHAD0W-JEDI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3

    Folks, folks, folks...

    Saying "it is a fairy tale" is NOT an answer. It's the equivalent of saying "because".

    Similarly, claiming that GL was modelling the Anakin/Padme romance on medieval romantic ballads... is another non-response to the key question of believability. Those ballads take place in a CONTEXT, in a society, in a place in time. You want to sell us a romance based on those standards - don't have the people behave like medieval characters for a half-hour of one movie because it seems "cool" or useful.

    *L* Okay... I said I was going to clam up and here I am chirping again. I am weaning myself off this topic by degrees... my one post for today...;)

    Shadow

  21. Sasha Sawyer Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 1999
    star 2
    Wow, Shadow Jedi, great explaining up there! I'm so glad someone else did all that, it would have worn me out to think that hard! :) Thanks!

    I can only find one way to accept Anakin and Padme's romance as written and thats impulse. Still, even if I believe that's what brought her to the altar, I still don't understand the motivation behind that impulse -- Is she feeling that time is slipping her by and she's grabbing the first thing that comes by? Does she have a Florence Nightingale complex and think she can heal him? Or is it more a mother complex and she thinks she can protect him? Or is she prone to recklessness and drawn to bad boys?

    You know, these things are just basic for heaven's sake! We shouldn't have to be asking this. The movie should have told us all this and then some.
  22. GS335 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2001
    star 4
    "Yes, the world is filled with smart people doing stupid things, but given what I know about Padme, I found it impossible to believe she would have fallen in love with Anakin after his unforgiving, disturbing confession. She was not only a planetary ruler, but spearheaded the fight to reclaim her world. That takes a tremendous amount of courage, character, and a deep sense of humanity. No, she might not have been around the block as far as intimate love goes, but how could such an unyeilding, obessesive, and ultimatley murderous brat so quickly win the heart of someone with such high values?

    You might buy it, but I don't for a second."


    You really can't explain love. Love is a beautiful thing, and no matter what wrong someone does, you still love that person. Padme has compassion for Anakin, and it shows in the movie. Her love for Anakin is very real. This is why you know that Padme is going to be seriously heartbroken, when Anakin walks out on her, betrays her and the Jedi, and goes over to the darkside of the force.

    Remember that Luke's love for Anakin is what saved him. Luke still loved his dad, despite all the evil he did to him, and his friends. Love conqueres all. This was proven, when Anakin saves his son, after he sees that his son is a better man than he is. Luke had compassion for his father, and really believed in him. You know that had to really touch Anakin, which was proven, when his good side finally came forefront, for the first time in many, many years. If Luke would've hated his father, and struck him down in hatred, than he would've been no better than his father. You hate the acts of the person, but it is wrong to hate the person. Anakin hating others is what will lead him to the darkside. Luke's love and compassion is what makes him resist the darkside. On top of that, this love ultimately redeems Anakin in ROTJ.
  23. MexChewie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    star 4
    While you shadow jedi may not accept it, saying both that it is a fairy tale and it comes from medival tales does explain it. Myth, stories, legends, fairy tales all come from real life with embellishments in order to highlight the moral lesson that is to be taught. Hero of a thousand faces is all the stories from cultures around the world that teach us, or are meant to teach us what flawed characters did and how we are not supposed to act. You want an explaination for their romance, start reading all the myths and legends you can get a hold of. Why?
    "Because!"
  24. shanimalwindu44 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    It sounds plausible, but like someone said would overload tattoine. And as well the confession of the murder is essential to the love. That is such a deep confession you woudl only tell to some one you loved truly. The fact that he confesses that to her is greatly symbolic of the love he has for her. And also on a slightly broader note, if she can still love him after that, it must be true
  25. QuiGonJinn84 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 1999
    star 2
    Is there anyone here who didnt think the love story worked and then on repeated viewing found that they believed Padme loved Anakin?

    We can argue WHY she loves him and all of that but there is something you can't argue into truth and its just this feeling you get that Portman portrays a character who really loves Anakin. I haven't fully had that feeling - I will see it once more before finalizing my opinion - but has anyone not felt her love for him and then saw it again and did feel it?

    I believe that they have great chemistry after Padme's confession - they really look like a couple in the midst of a war. I just have trouble believing that Padme truly deeply loves him.
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