How was the Old Republic Governed? By Monkeys?

Greetings.

I was wondering about how the executive branch of the Republic worked (pre-Clone Wars). The books I have read that shed some light on the topic are the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide, a sourcebook for the current Star Wars Role playing game, and the Clone Wars Campaign Guide, as well as a lot of novels and most of the Star Wars comics ever published by Dark Horse.

From this I have built a sketchy idea of how the Republic works but I am unsure about many things. Here I will write some of my thoughts on how things work, and some of the questions I have on the topic.

I. The Chancellor

I think I know that the Chancellor is the de facto and de jure leader of the Republic, as he is the leader of the Senate, and the Senate governs the Republic. It is stated in the Clone Wars Campaign Guide that in the time leading up to the Clone Wars, the Chancellor had lost much power and had become a figurehead and had little real power. However it seems clear to me that in the Old days, in the Old Republic era, the Chancellor had more direct power. How much power I am not certain, but it seems obvious in for instance The Tales of the Jedi comics that the Chancellor was the head of government and I see him as more akin to a Prime Minister in the Parliamentarian system.

Questions:

When you become Chancellor, do you retain your Senate seat? If not, who gets it? How much power does the Chancellor have, in the Old Republic? Can he do anything without approval from the Senate? Does he appoint the heads of Republic Organizations such as Republic Intelligence and things like that? What can he do exactly? Can he declare war on another State? Is he the commander-in-chief of the Army and Navy? Do Admirals and Generals take orders from him? Can he appoint the leaders of the armed forces such as the Admiral of the Fleet, who is stated to be appointed for a ten year term in the KotOR Campaign Guide, in the Republic chapter.


II. Committees and Ministers

I have read in the KotOR Campaign Guide that the most powerful senators in the Old Republic were the ones who led Oversight Committees. However there are some mentions of Ministers to be found, for instance the Old Republic had a Defense Minister.
I am rather confused as to who exactly was in charge of what in the Old Republic.

Questions:

So there were ministers. How did that work? Who became minister? Who decided that? Were only senators allowed to become ministers? If so, did they retain their senate seat? If so, if they lost their position as Minister did they have to try to re-enter the Senate? Also, how were committees manned?

III. Senators

How many senators were there? Were they divided into factions, or was it everybody for themselves?

Bonus Question: If the Chancellor, the Ministers, and the Heads of the Oversight Committees were also part of the Senate does that mean that the Legistlative and Executive Branch were basically not seperated at all in the Old Republic?

 

Interesting questions.

It seems that when Palpatine became Chancellor, he gave up his senate seat, since (ten years later) Amidala occupied it. Though there's no evidence for it, I would imagine that the seat was filled either by a special election or by an interim appointment made, in this case, by the Queen of Naboo. Interestingly, Padme tells Anakin: 'when the Queen asked me to serve as Senator, I couldn't refuse her.' This perhaps suggests an appointment rather than a special election.

It seems that, at least around the time when Palpatine took office, there was no centralized Army or Navy, defense being left to local forces and of course the Jedi. And even after the Senate granted Palpatine emergency powers, it seems that it was primarily the Jedi who commanded the clone army. At least, in RotS we see the Jedi making command decisions but don't see Palpatine issuing direct military orders (that I recall). But, then again, Order 66 demonstrates that the clones' true loyalty was to the Chancellor, so perhaps the situation is more complicated.

There seem to have been a large number. For one thing, when we see the Senate chamber it appears to be huge. For another, scenes deleted from RotS mention the 'Delegation of 2000' who presented a petition to Palpatine. Now, it's likely that the 2,000 figure included not only Senators but also other officials; but even if only ~10% were Senators, that puts the total number of Senators at significantly more than 400 (since the 'Delegation' obviously represented a minority of Senators).

It certainly seems that way - not wholly unlike the parliamentary system in many countries today. Indeed, it seems to me that the closest analogues to the government of the Old Republic in the real world are unicameral parliamentary systems like that of Israel, for instance. Of course, the analogy isn't exact; for one thing there seem to have been many more Senators than there are representatives in any real parliament that I know of, and for another, the Jedi played a role in the Old Republic's government that obviously has no parallel in the real world.

 

One would summise that The Republic existed for as long and as well as it did because of the form and limits of it nature.

That nature being a seperation of powers (between the executive, senatorial, and judicial branches) that each served as a check and balance to its relative counterparts.

Of course that nature of existence was also greatly served by the impressive precognitive (and enforcement) abilities of The Jedi Order.

However, beyond all that, the undercurrent of success of The Republic System was the strong, free, and independant ability of each system to govern itself, free from unjust and unduly federal oversight.

 

Donp, I know many folks here bag on the politics of the PT, but I love questions like yours. This is a great topic.

Here:

I. The Chancellor

I think I know that the Chancellor is the de facto and de jure leader of the Republic, as he is the leader of the Senate, and the Senate governs the Republic. It is stated in the Clone Wars Campaign Guide that in the time leading up to the Clone Wars, the Chancellor had lost much power and had become a figurehead and had little real power. However it seems clear to me that in the Old days, in the Old Republic era, the Chancellor had more direct power. How much power I am not certain, but it seems obvious in for instance The Tales of the Jedi comics that the Chancellor was the head of government and I see him as more akin to a Prime Minister in the Parliamentarian system.

Okay, I have to address this "loss of power" regarding the Chancellor. It is true the Republic is a unicameral system. But the "loss of power" stems from one thing:

1. A Institutionalized Bureaucracy. By the time we get to TPM, many of the matters and situations that in the past were dealt with directly by the Chancellor and his administration, are now controlled and guided by careerist bureaucrats. That's the whole idea behind appointing committees and such during the senate scenes in TPM, instead of the direct action Amidala requests. So now instead of the Chancellor dealing with the daily matters at hand, bureaucrats have taken over. This slows the Chancellor's actions down and reduces his effectiveness as the head of government.

Your questions are good ones and I'm not sure if the EU covers this or not. I do remember the novel Cloak of Deception dealt with a scandal(the "baseless accusations of corruption" Palpatine references in TPM) surrounding a supposed conflict of interest with Valorum Shipping, which is a family company, and some stolen goods.

When you become Chancellor, do you retain your Senate seat? If not, who gets it?

Like the British PM? Good question. I'm not aware of anything covering this.


How much power does the Chancellor have in the Old Republic? Can he do anything without approval from the Senate?

In TPM he sends Jedi on a clandestine mission without the approval of the Senate. So it seems the justice and enforcement ministries are under the purview of the Senate.


Does he appoint the heads of Republic Organizations such as Republic Intelligence and things like that?

A few mentions are scattered throughout the PT regarding "the courts". IN TPM, Palps suggests submitting a "plea to the courts" aside from the Senate. This implies a separation between the legislature and the judiciary, but it's never stated exactly. In ROTS, Mace Windu mentions during his duel with Palps to Anakin that Palpatine controls the courts. So, he either, through legislation or fiat, consolidated his power during the PT(which we can assume) or the courts were never separate, but a division in his government.



What can he do exactly? Can he declare war on another State?

The Galactic republic's full name, at least via the TPM Insider's Guide on CD-ROM, is The Galactic Republic of Sovereign Systems. Qui-Gon states that he "cant fight a war for you[Padme] in TPM. This implies Senate involvement and sanction before they can take action within the republic.


Is he the commander-in-chief of the Army and Navy?

No. during the PT that is the senate. Remember in SW: General Kenobi, years ago you served my father during the Clone Wars." What happened between AOTC and ROTS is a further consolidation of power in the Chancellor's office. That's what the deleted scenes covering the formation of the rebellion in ROTS were all about. Palpatine was consolidating his power by appointing regional and planetary governors to administer the Chancellor's policies. That was what Tarkin was in SW. Leia: "Governor Tarkin". He was just the supreme governor or Grand Military Officer. Palpatine had bypassed the senate. It was now a fixture. A r

 

ShaneP: Great comments. Very helpful.

Perhaps to give a little bit of perspective to why I am thinking about these things presently, I would like to tell you that I am running a Star Wars Roleplaying campaign set in the Knights of the Old Republic era. And one of the player characters is an old retired admiral and war hero who would like to try to set things right in a decaying and corrupt Republic.

So therefore I am most anxious to be able to set up some sort of coherent political system for the Republic so that our roleplaying experience can be both immersive and realistic.

The trouble is that there is considerable data available on the workings of the Republic during Episodes I-III but rather little on its organization in the Old Republic times.

Regarding the Chancellor's power I believe you are spot on however with regards to his power having dwindled due to excessive bureaucracy. This begs the question, how would the Republic have been governed differently in the Old Republic era, long before the bureaucracy had taken such a hold on the Republic.

One thing we do know about the Chancellors of the Old Republic is that they often served for many years, which seems to indicate that their positions were not as delicate as one would surmise based on one's understanding of the Movie-era Republic, as a simple 50% majority was needed to remove them, making it seemingly impossible for them to make unpopular decisions.

Whether that reflects the fact that those who became Chancellors never achieved that post without having a strong base among senators, or the fact that there was some sort of balancing rule to prevent Senators from firing the Chancellor when he became "difficult".

Or perhaps I am just misunderstanding how a parliamentary system works, and am overly concerned with the Senators' No Confidence power being too strong.

 

Well, there are different republic systems to look at in history for example.

But the first thing you need to decide is: What kind of republic is the Galactic Republic? What does it govern? Does it only govern points between planets, not on them? Does it only regulate trade between worlds and not planetary trade?
Is it a federal or confederated system?

edit:

Well, a "No confidence" vote in say, The House of Commons, would not trigger new elections, but since the PM is a part of that body, he would be compelled by the will of it to call for them.

So I think you are right on track to what is a parliamentary system.

And yes, he would need a strong base of support if he wanted to hold onto his parties leadership and remain as the head of the government.

That is why the republican system ALA The Phantom Menace is a parliamentary one.

 

I think your analysis of the Old republic being a parliamentary system is on-target. It's certainly not a presidential system like the USA. The Chancellor is a part of the Senate and thus, his administration is there too.

So the "No confidence" and all the other bits we get from the PT clearly show a parliamentary republic.

Maybe take a look at Germany today as a good example of federal republics. Also, New Zealand as a parliamentary system with one house.

Here:

Via Wikipedia:

The Bundeskanzler (Federal Chancellor)?currently Angela Merkel?is the head of government and exercises executive power, similar to the role of a Prime Minister in other parliamentary democracies. Federal legislative power is vested in the parliament consisting of the Bundestag (Federal Diet) and Bundesrat (Federal Council), which together form a unique type of legislative body. The Bundestag is elected through direct elections, yet abiding proportional representation. The members of the Bundesrat represent the governments of the sixteen federal states and are members of the state cabinets. The respective state governments have the right to appoint and remove their envoys at any time.

The Bundespräsident (Federal President)?currently Horst Köhler?is the head of state, invested primarily with representative responsibilities and powers. He is elected by the Bundesversammlung (federal convention), an institution consisting of the members of the Bundestag and an equal number of state delegates. The second highest official in the German order of precedence is the Bundestagspräsident (President of the Bundestag), who is elected by the Bundestag and responsible for overseeing the daily sessions of the body. The third-highest official and the head of government is the Chancellor, who is nominated by the Bundespräsident after being elected by the Bundestag. The Chancellor can be removed by a constructive motion of no confidence by the Bundestag, where constructive implies that the Bundestag simultaneously elects a successor.


NZ:

The New Zealand Parliament has only one chamber, the House of Representatives, which usually seats 120 Members of Parliament. Parliamentary general elections are held every three years under a form of proportional representation called Mixed Member Proportional. The 2008 General Election created an 'overhang' of two extra seats, occupied by the Maori Party, due to that party winning more seats in electorates than the number of seats its proportion of the party vote would have given

 

Well, since both Valorum and Palpatine were primates, yeah.

Anyway, it was a Parliamentary system. At least that was what I thought of.

 

Never mind all that. The only answer to the thread question that makes any kind of sense is, of course:

Space Monkeys.

 

Palpatine was always the Supreme Commander of the clone army; however, it wasn't until late in the war (obviously) that he began actually directing the Army's movements. The 'Siege of Saleucami' that Obi-Wan mentions was Palpatine's order, for example.

 

It's not real so it doesn't have to make sense...

 

Oh really? Excuse me for wanting characters to base their actions on common sense and logic and behave as if they has some sense. Even in a galaxy far far away. How believable would any fiction of fantasy be if everyone behaved like monkeys? Not only believable but enjoyable.

 

What I am really wondering is why my name is all over that second post.

 

That's your alias.......umm yeah.

 

Why do people vote in the galaxy?

Its common knowledge that almost all politicians are liars.

Are jedi alowed too vote?

 

Wish I could tell you! That is bizarre. All I can think of is that maybe I had just replied to a post by you elsewhere and still had the name in my mind, but if so I have no recollection of it. Weird.

Anyway, sorry for the mis-attribution!

 

Are jedi allowed too vote?

Not sure. But can you imagine:\

Yoda: Hanging chad my ballot has. Unsure of it's validity I am. Confusing it was.