ST How well did TFA work as a sequel to ROTJ?

Great analogy. I'd go further and state it's like seeing a seed planted, and returning to see how the flower has prospered, only to find a McDonalds has been built over it.

It's almost like TFA is an alternate universe version of Star Wars. In that respect it's very similar to Star Trek 09.

 

There is no almost.

It is an alternate universe.

There is Lucas' universe which is exclusive to him and then what Disney did with their retro-verse.

They saw what JJ did with Trek and that is what they wanted.

They wanted to be safe and secure which is not the state of the Lucasverse of film-making.

Almost but that actually applies to those people with Lucas and the PT.

The "notion" we are talking about is what actually happened as a "sequel" to ROTJ. Which actually DID happen but years before TFA.

The original question proposes how well does TFA work as a sequel to ROTJ? The answer is not very well. Should we have been looking for a sequel to ROTJ?

Some might but I certainly didn't expect one from JJ and Disney. One might suppose that Lucas' stories were but that fundamentally didn't interest Disney as they wanted as discussed over and again to return in some way, shape or form to where ANH was. They wanted a remake that was also VII.

 

I think the majority of people's point is that the logical starting point of the next film is with the fall of Luke's Jedi Order. Basically everything we see in the flashbacks should have been Episode VII.

 

Flashbacks are not apart of SW. Just sayin...

 

p.s. It is 'a part' not 'apart'.

 

It's not an alternate universe. You might not like it in your headcanon, but what Lucas sold was the right to tell stories in his universe. You don't have to like it, or accept it, but that's what it is.

Best take that up with Yoda

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future, the past. Old friends long gone"

What did Rey see in her vision? Other places? Check. The future? Depends on when some parts happened. The past? Check. Old friends long gone? Check.

So how exactly is Rey's vision not already entirely consistent with Yoda's words?

 

Well TFA is canon... there's no denying that. I'm not sure anyone is suggesting otherwise, but rather, it's that it feels like a re-set, or alternate version. To me, TFA feels very much like Star Trek 09, which to some extent was to be expected. Now some may be agnostic, some may prefer it, some may hate it... but it is nonetheless, for me anyways, as removed from what went before as Superman Returns was from Superman: The Movie or The Godfather III was from The Godfather.

 

It's how you do it, is what I was trying to say. Using Flashbacks in a way where it advances the plot or using it as convince. Since we don't know what all happened in TFA(by film) it would be kinda generic to have all these flashbacks to explain the past like that.

 

Well, what you said was "flashbacks are not a part of Star Wars" - are you accepting then, that as long ago as 1980 there is dialogue onscreen that makes it clear that flashbacks through the force (exactly what Rey experienced) are indeed possible?

Cos you can debate the quality all you like, but that demonstrably untrue absolutism is poor quality. At least get facts right before saying what Star Wars encompasses, or should encompass.

 

Nice one, clinteastwoodbradfield. It's always hilarious to watch self-appointed SW Purists trash TFA with assertions that are later proven untrue. Just sayin

Let's be clear here: In talking about a sequel to ROTJ, we are NOT talking about Episode 7 in the same way we do when looking at Episodes 1-3 or 4-6. TFA is kick-off episode in the sequel to the OT. So any fan who erroneously thought EP7 was going to be "Film 4 in the Luke, Leia, and Han Story" was destined to be sadly disappointed. But that's not the filmmakers fault. That was NEVER, EVER TFA's purpose.

Yes, our beloved OT characters returned in TFA but most SW fans understood from the get go that after 30 years they were going to be second fiddles to a brand new ensemble of SW heros in the ST. So bashing the depiction of our OT characters after TFA, is like bashing The Lord of the Rings because Bilbo got old and "devolved" as a character in The Fellowship of the Ring.

 

See Qui-Riv, who does indeed assert that it's an alternate universe, despite that it, er... Isn't.


"Alternate universe" has a specific meaning. What TFA did isn't it. I suppose that UK sitcom Black Books takes place in an alternate universe from season 3 onwards when Graham Linehan stops writing?

You can say it feels wrong, that's fine. But Qui's alternate nonsense is just that, and it's frustrating when he asserts it with an air of superiority

 

I worded myself wrong I admit, but my last statement is what I was implying. The way Rey was used was albeit, not generic and different. Happy now son?


.

 

Well, no because at the end of The Hobbit, Bilbo returns from his adventure and settles down to a calm and restful life.

Where do we find him at the start of LOTR? In a calm and restful life, though with some longing to leave. Which is pretty organic.

Compare to TFA.

At the end of ROTJ, it was strongly implied that Luke would bring about the 'return' of the Jedi. When TFA starts, all the jedi are dead again.

The empire was destroyed in ROTJ, but it's back at basically full strength in TFA.

It would be like if LOTR was Frodo going a journey with a bunch of Dwarves, because the lonely mountain had been invaded by another dragon, thus invalidating all of Bilbo's accomplishments.

LOTR provided new villains, in the forms of Sauron and Saruman, who were very different to Smaug or Bolg.

TFA provides us with Snoke, an evil dark sider leader of the empire, who sits on a throne and wears a dark robe. Basically, he's Sidious.

 

And even after all your posts re. this, you still manage to miss the point by a huge margin...

 

Ezon Pin please don't call me son.
Also, your last post could do with a quick re-read as it still isn't clear what you're saying; "the way Rey was used was albeit, not generic and different" doesn't make sense

 

The Jedi all being dead again is merely a necessary piece of writing so that the ST can be about the reformation of the Jedi - I suspect that ideally Disney/JJ would have liked to have had the chance to make an ST at a time when we could have caught up with Luke 5-10 years after ROTJ rather than 30. As it is, the off-screen slaughter of new Jedi simply means that Luke has a meaningful part to play. It'd be boring as hell if he had Bilbo's role in LOTR

 

You mean with statements like "flashbacks are not part of SW"???

My apologies. When someone makes definitive statements about what is or isn't Star Wars, I assumed you considered yourself one. My bad.

Okie Dokie.

 

"son" is like me saying dawg at the end. Which I always do so it's a major habit, but I can't tell if your joking or not...

And it does make sense. I was referring to your comment past comment but I forgot to quote it. I was saying that her "Flashback Mode" was done in an interesting and creative way son..

 

EDIT: DP
If you looked at my past comment, I corrected myself. But you might have not seen that.

To call someone "purist", you'll have to look into if I said something like "TFA is terrible and should be like this because etc".

But yeah, lets not derail

 

Also, the "Empire" isn't back at full strength again in TFA. The Galactic Empire of the OT effectively ruled the Galaxy. At the start of TFA the "sinister" First Order are only just emerging as a threat, albeit one that has largely been ignored by the New Republic.

They've been building up their forces in the Unkown Regions for several decades, in addition to constructing Starkiller Base. By the end of the movie, the "sucker punch" destruction of the Republic senate (and most of its fleet) leaves the Galaxy in a precarious position, but it remains to be seen exactly how the balance of power will play out between the FO (who have lost Starkiller) and forces hostile to the FO in the subsequent films.

 

Right. Being careful not to be misunderstood as bashing anything, if one wishes to complain that the means, methods, and feel transform parts of this saga into an alternate universe, they should look at the difference between the OT and the PT. That was a Lucas to Lucas hand off, not Lucas to Disney. Right, wrong, or otherwise, Lucas decided that spaceships were cooler before, that there were a whole set of Jedi Order rules before, that one could do much more with the Force before, that symbiotic microorganism counts could enable Force connection and even possibly create life ... etc. Love all six, or only a certain number of them, claiming VII was somehow an alternate universe because it is non-Lucas, or Disney's money grab just does not compute.

 

We learned in TFA that Luke had a failed effort to bring about a return of the jedi order. But as I mentioned in a previous post, this sequel is three films long. Just because TFA reveals that Luke failed in his quest doesn't mean that Luke's a failure and there will be no new Jedi Order. We've got two future films ahead of us where we may see Luke's quest fulfilled--and fulfilled ON SCREEN. Wouldn't that be more exciting -- and fulfilling -- for fans?

 

His Jedi order was destroyed and he is in hiding (the exact opposite thing we are lead to believe he would do based on OT events).

Yeah no fail there....

 

Another example of the "JJ didn't do anything new/ how dare JJ do anything new!" contradiction.