How would you utilise The Imperial March in A New Hope?

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by darth_mccartney, Sep 13, 2012.

Moderators: Darth_Nub
  1. darth_mccartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2008
    star 2
    As we all know ANH is the only Star Wars movie not to include The Imperial March in some way, shape or form. Mainly because it hadn't be written.

    SO how and where in the movie would you use this piece of music? :)

    The obvious one is when Darth Vader strides through the door of the Tantive IV...once the Imperial March has been established as Vaders theme in the other movies, it seems to stick out ike a sore thumb that it is not there.
    ARAJediMaster likes this.
  2. darth_mccartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2008
    star 2
    In fact I just found this video on YouTube. I think the use of the Imperial March was very well done, especially when Vader boards the ship
  3. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    I love the Imperial March, but I'd be more in favor of removing it from most of the PT instances than adding it to ANH. AOTC especially, when it plays while they watch the massing clone troopers and ships. I get the foreshadowing, but it was too much, too soon.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  4. Hightower Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2005
    I wouldn't use the Imperial March in ANH. You will all think I'm weird, but I like the original Death Star motif, and the Darth Vader theme for the Imperials that is in ANH. I wish it could have been used in conjunction with the Imperial March in ESB and ROTJ.
  5. Bobatron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    The first use of the Imperial March in AOTC, in the Lars' garage, was just too obvious and out of place.
    The only time it could work in ANH would be if the first appearance of the Death Star was when the Millennium Falcon arrived. Every other scene is just too short to introduce the theme, compared to its introduction in TESB. The use in that duel smothers the scene and throws off the pacing.
    Now that I'm thinking about this, I just noticed John Williams must have been inspired by his bit of music that plays in the scene when Vader boarded the Tantive IV. That bit right when Vader started to walk again (before segueing to Leia with R2) sounds like the Imperial March.
    Last edited by Bobatron, Sep 14, 2012
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  6. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Hey! We have a music forum :D Thanks for starting, and now moving to its proper home.
  7. Ferus Olin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2012
    star 1
    Probably when Darth Vader first boards the Tantive IV but other than that I think A New Hope is fine
  8. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    When Darth Vader fights obi wan kenobi. That part was so bland in the movie, with no dramatic music. Former best friends meet, now as an old man and a disfigured cyborg samurai, on a space station, two knights. One of them is responsible for his former friend, now evil, disfigurement in lava. Very epic, especially knowing the backstory. Young Vader vs young Obi wan was very epic. Their older counterparts should have an epic, dramatic, duel too, with John williams music.

    Kind of like how in episode 3, in vader's knighting by emperor, and when vader used the force to shut the doors and slay the seperatist council, play hints of the imperial march as he walks in, then play battle of the heroes! Say what you will about the prequels, but their soundtrack made the original trilogy's soundtrack way more awesome. Add prequel soundtrack to the originals! It's way better!
  9. DarthRelaxus Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2007
    star 5
    At the absolute minimum it would have to be Vader's entrance on Tantive IV. Another good spot is when when Vader and Obi-Wan find each other; it would forshadow how the duel ends.
    Admiral_Volshe likes this.
  10. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I would actually only use it sparingly. I would definitely use it on his entrance to the Tantive IV. Maybe also during the scene where Ben is telling Luke what happened to his father. it only needs to be used during personal moments for Vader himself. But then I am totally fine with using a stripped down and almost wistful version of Battle of the Heroes for the duel between old Ben and Vader. I am a purist by no means.
    Admiral_Volshe likes this.
  11. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    I pretty much agree with what Strilo said. My main problem is replacing any original score, especially since I am fond of the ANH Imperial theme. Certainly there are unscored scenes where the IM could be subtly worked in. For the duel? BOTH possibly. Or maybe DOTF? Or Qui-Gon's theme (รก la "Qui-Gon And Darth Maul Meet")?

    A few years ago Cerrabore did a cool medley of the ANH Imperial Theme and the IM for Vader's entry into the temple in ROTS, which IMHO would have been much better than tracking in AOTC score.
    Last edited by General Kenobi, Nov 9, 2012
  12. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I think that Vader's entrance is perfect as it is. I would, however, like to hear a subdued rendition of the IM when Obi-Wan tells Luke about Vader. The first Imperial Theme was used as Vader's theme in ANH, but since the March took over that role, I think it would be more fitting in that scene.
    Other than that, I don't know. It would be difficult to include a full-blown Imperial March without deviating from the feel of ANH's score.
    Oh, I just remembered: When Anakin walks out to inspect the Falcon, there's no music at all. That scene could definitely do with a more bold variation of the IM.





    "Only I could be so bold"
    /LM
  13. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    I just listened to that. Heh... pretty amateur, but I still stand by the idea that something like that would have been a million times more effective than the tracked "Arena" music.

    As for putting the Imperial March into Star Wars: no. I'm going to take the purist route here. The Imperial March is too rich and bombastic for that score. Williams wrote soaring, lyrical themes for the heroes. For the villains, who were absolute evils, the music was clipped and brutal; hence the Imperial motive and Death Star motive. For The Empire Strikes Back, Vader came into his own and was developed as a character, so it was appropriate to write a more majestic theme for him. I'm more concerned about the internal stylistic consistency of scores than with canon. But, honestly, it's also that I don't like the prequels at all, and I don't like the idea of conforming a classic to them. That's why I wouldn't want Battle of the Heroes or anything else in the lightsaber duel in Star Wars. The old Vader and Obi-Wan are so far removed from the characters who jumped around in CGI lava that I consider them essentially different characters. Also, the value of silence cannot be overstated. It also works beautifully in the duel in The Empire Strikes Back, in which Williams' score was wisely dialed out for a few minutes.
    Kenneth Morgan likes this.
  14. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    That's because that kind of silence is suspenseful. The silence on the Death Star hangar bay , like in so many other scenes in ANH, makes the situation a bit boring. It's kind of like watching a rehearsal.





    "That's impossible, even for a computer"
    /LM
  15. TWISTY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012

    Yeah.... that one was George's call if I remember correctly.



    Can we at least try to work on the ADD that's enveloping us as a species right now instead of openly admitting how [disallowed word] we are? I personally love those slow moments because making movies is about BALANCE, not shoving in as much high tension crap as you can manage in 2 hours. If you want that kind of constant eye-candy crap go watch the prequels or Transformers. Action scenes are ALWAYS better when they are complimented by softer scenes, it's called CONTRASTING ELEMENTS and is kinda like how when you shine a flashlight in the dark it's much brighter than when you shine it in daylight. You can see it in the dark because of contrast. Same thing applies to making movies which Hollywood has forgotten in recent decades. The toned down scenes are the darkness and the action scenes the lightness: the darker it is around you the brighter the light will appear. Watching movies like Transformers is like trying to see a flashlight during the day: it's too much at once, redundancy at it's finest hour. The reason you like the action sequences so much is because they are awesome, yes, but subconsciously they feel even MORE awesome to you because of CONSTRAST.

    PK EDIT: Language
    Last edited by PrincessKenobi, Nov 18, 2012
    NileQT87 likes this.
  16. TWISTY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    double post
    Last edited by TWISTY, Nov 18, 2012
  17. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Thanks, but I don't need that lesson. Bay's Transformers movies are dull, but ANH is great. From time to time, though, it is a bit boring because it lacks music.





    "You are reckless!"
    /LM
  18. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    Both ANH and TESB( to lesser extent) lack music for today's standards, and compared to the other four movies, but back then, it was bold to have 90 minutes of music for a 120 minute movie. For example, they decided NOT to have any music between the escape from the DS up to the final battle to give it a rest, because there had been "a lot" of music up to that point.
    Standards have changed, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing. Yes, sometimes ANH can feel a bit underscored (and therefore, "slow"). But some recent movies can feel a bit overscored.

    Returning to the topic, I don't know if I would add the IM to ANH. It's the biggest musical incongruency of the whole Saga, but it's not a glaring mistake unless you're a music fan. Adding extra music to ANH would change the tone of the movie (having music during the Hangar scene or during the duel, for example), and rescoring the origianl Imperial motive with the IM would be kind of sad, because the original music works well...
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  19. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Yeah, I like the original Imperial motif as well-plus it is Darth Vader's theme. He's not the overarching bad guy he is in TESB. It's appropriate that the non-Vader Imperial motif is used.
    TOSCHESTATION likes this.
  20. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    Yes and no. in the context of the whole Saga, Vader's theme is the Imperial March, and it appears in every other movie, so the absence of the theme IS a problem (in terms of musical-continuity), regardless of Vader's lesser role on that film.
  21. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    It suits me because Vader isn't, you know, unleashed. ROTS or TESB Vader probably would have executed the whole Death Star conference room just for being associated with Motti; his authority seems vague to me-sure, he's the Emperor's emissary, but in the sense that he doesn't have an "official" position. So yeah, don't really mind the continuity disconnect :p
    oierem likes this.
  22. aalagartassle Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2011
    star 4
    If I was allowed to add it to ANH it would be in low dynamics to show foreshadowing when Darth Vader chokes the rebel of Tantive IV, then again when he senses Obi wan and thirdly in larger dynamics when Obi wan fights against him. Finally a bombastic rendition when he shoots the y wings, to a more uneven/agitated tempo when pursuing Luke with less emphasis on dynamics.
  23. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Yeah there are loads of uses of the Imperial March throughout the Saga that are not bombastic and loud. All of the uses I would suggest for the March in ANH would be low, menacing and rumbling, not loud and bombastic.
    DarthBoba likes this.
  24. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    The suggestion to use it when Vader first appears is excellent. I think that's one of the best places.

    Maybe have it play quietly when Obi-Wan spots Vader in the corridor. Or under their dialogue.

    Possibly when the Star Destroyer approaches the Death Star.
  25. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Along with their families!
    "Not just the men, but the women and the children too!" [face_skull]
Moderators: Darth_Nub