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Discussion TLJ Hyperspace Technology/Tracking in TLJ

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Certain_man, Mar 6, 2018.

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  1. Certain_man

    Certain_man Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Does anyone know specifically how the hyperdrive is supposed to work?

    Apologies if this has been asked and answered. I couldn’t find a specific thread addressing my questions.

    Through my searching here, I see the previous EU canon established that hyperspace travel took place in a separate dimension.

    Do we think that is still the case after TLJ?

    Holdo did not enter another dimension and instead hit the enemy ship.

    Does this mean she is able to control at what point she enters the other dimension?

    Also in TFA, Han needs the doors open to escape his trawler in the MF.

    Why would he need the doors open if he can zoop into a different dimension? And why would it be such a big deal to have your destination be in-atmo of a planet, like on Starkiller, if it’s simply a point A to B dimensional hole?
     
  2. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Something like that. It appears that where you emerge from hyperspace is determined by your navicomputer. When you can emerge, and therefore when you arrive at your destination, is determined by the navicomputer and the hyperdrive's capability first. But then it's at the discretion of the pilot when to actually do so.

    Which all points to a multidimensional phenomenon. i.e. You can be "hover" or circle in the hyperspace dimension until you are ready to drop out of it at the desired "real" space coordinates.
     
  3. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Just to mention that real space objects cast a mass shadow on hyperspace, so you can still crash with them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  4. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Precisely why a good navicomputer is essential to safely get to where you are going in the shortest distance/time possible. Not just to accurately hit your desired coordinates.
     
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  5. BLemelisk

    BLemelisk Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Objects with insufficient mass must not provide that large of a mass shadow then, because the computer seems to be designed to calculate where astral bodies are, and not individual ships.
     
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  6. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    It's a hyperdrive. Not an improbability drive. ;)
     
  7. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    The fact that the computer is not able to calculate where individual ships are does not mean that the ships stop casting a shadow.

    They do cast a shadow, but given the astronomical distances and small relative size of a ship, the chances of crashing into a ship is very small.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  8. BLemelisk

    BLemelisk Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    When fleets and other groups of ships jump together, maybe their hyperdrives share information so that you don't get a TLJ explosion occasionally whenever fleets come out of hyperspace. A rule of thumb of navigation in Star Wars is probably to just not have your ships on top of each other when everyone jumps, and the hyperdrives will take care of placing each ship in the entire fleet in the same exact orientation on the other side of the jump.

    But whenever you're in there, I don't think it would matter if you came near another ship that was in "real" space. Han quickly tells Luke about supernovas and stars, stuff where titanic masses are involved.

    I saw a write up about this and their best merger of the two ideas was that when the hyperdrive engages, it rockets the ship really fast until it can "slip" into hyperspace. So the Raddus was in the acceleration phase of the jump.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  9. Certain_man

    Certain_man Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2018
    So she was able to determine how much runway the ship would need then? And that the Raddus was in that runway, while also being outside of firing range?

    Also, how do we know about the mass shadow phenomenon?
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  10. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Evidence: she was able to go to Hyperspace and crash into Snoke's ship.

    No matter how many constrainsts one may want to create, the fact that she was able to do it means that any random constraints we can create were satisfied and she was able to do what she did.

    The Raddus was not outside firing range, as it was clearly displayed in the movie.

    Here: http://www.starwars.com/databank/hyperdrive
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  11. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    It's just like dusting crops.

    Boy.
     
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  12. Certain_man

    Certain_man Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2018
    I like the analogy. You get used to the “space” you’re covering over time. But the analogy also assumes you have full control over the surroundings. Here, there’s one ship running from another. I guess we’re to assume it happened to be within some radius of the speed-up runway needed to jump to hyperspace.

    Thanks for the hyperdrive link!

    I respectfully disagree with your opinion on the firing range. Literally the entirety of the movie was based around the rebels outrunning a large fleet just outside of firing range at all times. You’ll notice that to be true as ships of the rebel fleet get obliterated as they fail to catch up to the carrier towards the end of the movie.

    I also disagree with your characterization of my comments intending to “create constraints.” I was simply trying to figure out how the hyperdrive functioned, not antagonizing those like yourself who believe this movie is without flaw.

    Just as an aside, writers and directors are not always consistent with what has come before, especially when said people throw out notes given to them by the people that worked on the previous movie(s) in a saga. But I digress, plot holes are the subject of a different thread.
     
  13. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Up until the transports got dispatched and Holdo turned about. Closing range on the Destroyer.
     
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  14. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    The Resistance was just outside of effective firing range; we saw the Raddus's shields absorbing long range fire more than once. If the shields had collapsed, I don't doubt the ships would have been toast.
     
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  15. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    No worries. I do find some smaller flaws in the movie, but not enough to change my overall 9/10 score.

    That being said, I just want to avoid going too deep into technological workings of the Hyperdrive, because to be honest Star Wars was never a perfect implementation of feasible or real life physics.

    There is a level of detachment to reality that is required. For example, Lucas created the Hyperdrive in ANH. But as soon as he created that, he felt the need to add dialogue from Han to Luke, explaining that travel through Hyperdrive has dangers, otherwise it would become too overpowered.

    Later, the canon books/Rebels created this concept of mass shadow, to try to give a pseudo-scientific explanation to it.

    So what I mean is that going too deep into this is not going to lead us to definitive answers, because they don't exist.
    This is why I mentioned that any constraint we can create, was likely satisfied when Holdo jumped to lightspeed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Given that the Raddus appeared to have vanished completely before hitting the Supremacy (frame by frame sequence of the collision scene shows this) - and given that in Rebels Season 3 finale, a ship does the same "vanish away infinitely far" - goes into hyperspace, then an Interdictor cruiser pulls it out again, in exactly the same spot that it had "jumped away from" -

    I would suggest that the "run up" is an illusion created by the process of going into another dimension - it does not actually move, in realspace at all - but slips into the other dimension - hyperspace - and then begins moving (only to be pulled out, in the case with the Interdictor).

    Which would suggest that the two dimensions, realspace and hyperspace, overlap - events in one, can affect the other.
     
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  17. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    The closest model is a wormhole, with the space the tunnel travels through called hyperspace. You can certainly be affected by outside forces, and in turn affect outside forces.
     
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  18. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Unfortunately, now I've got the TLJ novelization, I can confirm that, it that, regardless of what the movie special effects might imply - the Raddus was still actually in realspace when it hit the Supremacy - it hadn't yet made the transition - the "jump point" being on the far side of the Supremacy.
    That said, the "hyperspace tunnel" created by the process of jumping into hyperspace, may have channelled the Raddus's wreckage into a real shield-punching blast.

    Holdo also had not come up with the idea until quite some time after the transports had left - they were in the process of being fired upon.

    Page 232:

    A hologram shimmered to life at her console.
    "Admiral, we're taking fire!" reported a Resistance pilot, and she could hear panic in his voice. "What do we—do we turn around?"
    "No! You're too far out. Full speed to planetfall! Full speed!"
    An instant later the hologram flared out of existence. Holo thought she saw the pilot throw up his arms before it vanished.
    Holdo choked back a dismayed cry. She had to do something. But what? There was no way the Raddus could defend the transports—they had moved beyond the protection of its shields.
    A light blinked on the interface with the navicomputer.
    Holdo called up the interface to dismiss whatever the alert was—it would only distract her while she tried to think—then paused.
    Someone had entered hyperspace coordinates into the system, calculating a jump that had never been made. The navicomputer was asking if the coordinates should be purged.
    It was Dameron, she realized—he'd rushed to the bridge as part of the plan he'd concocted, the one she'd correctly dismissed as too reckless and desperate to succeed.
    Holdo called the coordinates up on her console. The Mon Calamari cruiser had kept travelling along its heading for Crait since the coordinates had been entered into the navicomputer. As a result, the entry point for the hyperspace jump Poe had calculated was now behind the Raddus, on the other side of the First Order fleet.
    Holdo stared at her screen, trying to figure out what she had missed and concluded that her wild hope might not be completely unfounded.

    Page 251-252:

    Under ordinary operations, the presence of a sizable object along the route between the Raddus's realspace position and its entry point into hyperspace would have caused the heavy cruiser's fail-safes to cut in and shut down the hyperdrive.
    But with the fail-safes offline and the overrides activated, the proximity alerts were ignored. When the heavy cruiser plowed into the Supremacy's broad flying wing, the force of the impact was at least three orders of magnitude greater than anything the Raddus's inertial dampeners were rated to handle. The protective field they generated failed immediately, but the heavy cruiser's augmented experimental shields remained intact for a moment longer before the unimaginable force of the impact converted the Raddus into a column of plasma that consumed itself.
    However, the Raddus had already accelerated to nearly the speed of light at the point of that catastrophic impact—and the column of plasma it became was hotter than a sun and intensely magnetized. This plasma was then hurled into hyperspace along a tunnel opened by the null quantum-field generator—a tunnel that collapsed as quickly as it had been opened.
    Both the column of plasma and the hyperspace tunnel were gone in far less than an eyeblink, but that was long enough to rip through the Supremacy's hull from bow to stern, tear a ragged hole in a string of Star Destroyers flying in formation with it, and finally wink out of existence in empty space thousands of kilometers beyond the First Order task force.
     
  19. BLemelisk

    BLemelisk Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    I actually went into my local Barnes and Noble to read this exact passage on the way home from work the other day.
     
  20. Obi-Wan McCartney

    Obi-Wan McCartney Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 1999
    Long time TJC member here, just wondering what the big deal about hyperspace tracking is. Didn't Darth Vader tracking the millenium falcon through hyperspace in A New Hope? Isn't Rey herself "tracking" the resistance with her homing beacon?

    I'm a fan of the Last Jedi, just never understood this plot point. Thanks!
     
  21. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    There are subtle differences in each of those. The tracker on the Falcon was a physical thing. Same for the coded homing beacon. Both would send out strong signals constantly and it would be those signals from those objects that were then received by other objects.

    The technology they’ve been working on since the Rogue One era (there’s mention of the research when Jyn is going through the Empire archives to find “Stardust.”) seems to have more to do more with being able to track some kind of hyperspace signature and follow it from what I can tell. So, they wouldn’t be tracking a physical object that they planted and also have a unique connection to. They’d be following some trace of the hyperspace path itself left behind until it ended. It’s not explained in detail just as most technobabble specifics tend not to be but that was my impression.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  22. Oissan

    Oissan Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Yeah, the difference basically lies in the capability to track a ship without having a beacon on it. So instead of having to get on board and plant a tracker there, or have a spy which sends you a signal, you can now do so even without having infiltrated the ship.
     
  23. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Before they lock this topic (there are others identical)

    The new thing is that it is possible without the need of a tracker on board of the tracked ship.
    If you're wondering why Finn said "that's impossible", you're right to be perplexed.

    There was no need to portray it as something so surprising, indeed.
     
  24. Hopeless

    Hopeless Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Darth Vader used the force to track the Tantive IV.

    In Star Wars Rebels the Grand Inquisitor used a tracking beacon missile to tag the Phantom forcing Kanan & Ezra to split up with the Ghost using Fort Anaxes to divert the Empire.

    This was unnecessary but for that tracking to be relevant they would have to jump multiple times just to prove this!

    Why didn't they just reveal Snoke's spies tagged the ships the New Republic supplied the Resistance?

    Thus they had those tracking beacons built into the Resistance ships, there no need for some new tech that really isn't necessary!
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
  25. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Did they track the Tantive IV? Or was an APB put out on a ship of the make seen evacuating the Raddus, within a calculated perimeter, and the Tantive IV, (supposedly on a mercy mission) was identified as being in or near the Tatooine system?