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"I am more powerful than the Chancellor. I can overthrow him": Anakin a flip-flopper?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by WiSe_SitH_LoRd, Nov 6, 2005.

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  1. WiSe_SitH_LoRd

    WiSe_SitH_LoRd Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 22, 2005
    I am sincerely apologetic if this has been posted before but this just hit me in the face when we I was watching Revenge of the Sith on DVD.

    On Mustafar, Anakin claims that he is more powerful than the Chancellor himself and that he would be able to overthrow him, thus becoming the Emperor. But why is he suddenly willing to kill Palpatine when he clearly needed him in order to save Padme's life? Some of you may say that he could have killed him after he saved Padme but Sidious openly said that he didn't even know how to create life, and only he and Anakin would be able to do so.
  2. DUGGY

    DUGGY Jedi Youngling star 4

    Apr 23, 2005
    Once he became a Sith , his true colors came shining through. thus supporting the theory that he was not really doing anything for Padme. he was after power.
  3. Darth_Zoo

    Darth_Zoo Jedi Master star 4

    Jul 15, 2002
    It supports Obi's claim that Anakin only had a lust for power.
  4. WiSe_SitH_LoRd

    WiSe_SitH_LoRd Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 22, 2005
    Anakin was willing to rule over the galaxy with Padme, so that proves that he loved her and that he didn't want her to die.
  5. DUGGY

    DUGGY Jedi Youngling star 4

    Apr 23, 2005
    Sure he loved her. But he also loved Power. and now he really had some. don't forget he loved her through his force choke too ;) , even though she still said she loved him. he was Consumed by Vader and Evil.
  6. WiSe_SitH_LoRd

    WiSe_SitH_LoRd Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 22, 2005
    I do believe that when Anakin said that he was going to overthrow the Emperor, he loved Padme and was not only craving for power.

    "The Jedi turned against me. Don't you turn against me. "

  7. yoshifett

    yoshifett Jedi Knight star 5

    Apr 17, 2004
    At this point in the film, Anakin is so dillusional he'll pretty much say anything to rationalize his actions. This is just another one of those rationalizations. He wants Padme, he wants power, and he continually lies to himself and others about this. He wants to convince himself that he's done the right thing, and he wants to convince Padme of the same thing. Who knows? At this point Anakin might think that he was so powerful with the dark side that he could figure out how to save her life without Sidious' help. Anyway, moments later, he's choking Padme, so yeah I guess you could call him a "flip-flopper," though I believe the technical term is "Sith" ;)
  8. jedi_jacks

    jedi_jacks Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 17, 2005
    i gotta think that anakin always hated sidious with all his might. i dont think they were ever friends once palpatine revealed himself.

    sidious withheld his secrets or didnt hav them, anakin prolly couldnt stand him and wanted to overthrow him asap. then he got vader-ized. and obi-wan took padme away.
  9. voodoopuuduu

    voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host star 5 VIP - Game Host

    Mar 22, 2004
    But why is he suddenly willing to kill Palpatine when he clearly needed him in order to save Padme's life? Some of you may say that he could have killed him after he saved Padme but Sidious openly said that he didn't even know how to create life, and only he and Anakin would be able to do so.

    You notice he didnt say he was going to kill and over-throw Palps NOW, (that would be stupid :D). I take it he meant after a while, a few years maybe.
  10. CrAsHcHaOs

    CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Grand Master star 2

    May 7, 1999
    I thought John Kerry was the flip-flopper. :p

    Just kidding!
  11. That_Wascally_Droid

    That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Knight star 6

    Jul 29, 2001
    He has power, he'll keep Padme alive till after the kids are born. After that, why work under Palpatine?
    Kill him and make his real dream come true of absolute power with Padme at his side.
    Then, she out right denies Anakin and in his eyes betrays him (bringing Obi-Wan to Mustafar doesn't help matters any either).
    He chokes her enough in a bout of furious temper enough to silence, but not kill her.
    She dies anyway, Anakin's too weak to stop Palpatine, and his plans burn up with him.

    Not terribly hard to figure out as it's all right there.
  12. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    May 18, 2002
    Anakin says "I pledge myself to your teachings."

    Not exactly the most ringing endorsement of Palpatine. ;)

    It's clear to me that Anakin doesn't like Palps/Sidious, and is only joining him to save Padme's life.
  13. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 19, 1999
    No question about it. (Hey, where'd you get to be so smart, Garth? ;) ) Anakin is using Palps because he feels Palpatine will be a stepping stone to what he ultimately wants. Notice that he doesn't even say he's pledging himself to Palps, just to "his teachings"?

    Anakin is already behaving in a truly Sithly way from the moment he's initiated. He's interested only in expedience and intends to toss Palpatine as soon as possible.
  14. darthvaderv

    darthvaderv Jedi Padawan star 4

    May 20, 2005
  15. Brandon Rhea

    Brandon Rhea Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 26, 2004
    I don't know if "flip-flopper" is the best term to use, because I'm sure if you ask Lucas he will say that Anakin/Vader and Palpatine/Sidious are Republicans. :p
  16. jvberggren

    jvberggren Jedi Padawan star 4

    Nov 8, 2004

    anakin goes from "i'll do whatever you ask" to "i can overthrow him".
    is it really so strange that he goes from "i need his help" to "i'm powerful enough to this on my own"...

    i'm sure anakin's ego is so inflated near the end that he felt certain that he could save padme with his "new powers" without the help of sidious.
  17. martinDTanderson

    martinDTanderson Jedi Youngling star 2

    Mar 18, 2003
    Anakin hates Palpatine for what he has made him do, but as soon as he learns the secret to save padame, he will destroy him, and then he and Padame could rule the galaxy similar to how they talked about in EP2 at the medow.
  18. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 23, 2000
    If Anakin really hated Palpatine, then he should've killed him the second he revealed himself but that wouldn't happen since Palps brought up the "power to stop death" trick which made Anakin feel like Padme's life is held hostage by this conniving deciever. Anakin believes that if PalpSidious dies, than Padme will die and if he doesn't help him kill off the Jedi, then he won't show Anakin how to help Padme survive childbirth so Anakin had no choice but to betray the Jedi.

    Anakin is definately a flip-flopper because one moment he tells Padme that he's going to overthrow PalpSidious so that they can rule the galaxy as husband and wife but later on, he's defending him against Obi-wan's claims that Palps is evil by suggesting that the Jedi are evil which shows that the boy has completely lost his mind.
  19. Hou-nom Jek

    Hou-nom Jek Jedi Youngling star 3

    Apr 21, 2000
    *Before Anakin even turns to the darkside*

    PALPATINE: Are you going to kill me?

    ANAKIN: I would certainly like to.
  20. yankee8255

    yankee8255 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    May 31, 2005
    I don't think this was particularly well handled, but I think Anakin only wanted to keep Sidious around long enough to learn how to save Padme.
  21. sithrules70

    sithrules70 Jedi Padawan star 4

    May 28, 2005
    he loved her in the sith way.he was already obssesed when he was a jedi and if to that you add the dark side....

    according to GL what break padme's heart is that anakin is now after power rather than her and that keeping her safe was a secondary goal for him.
  22. Master_Shaitan

    Master_Shaitan Jedi Master star 5

    Dec 31, 2004
    Once Anakin turned to the dark side Padme was no longer his priority. Instead, he was more interested by power. He was obsessed with it. he wanted to rule the galaxy with Padme, another of his possessions, by his side.

    Once he learned how to save Padme he would kill Sidious.
  23. Master Chbel

    Master Chbel Jedi Padawan star 4

    May 6, 2000
    Without Padme, all he had left was that power. So his motives turn from killing Sidious now to learning everything about the darkside then killing him. The temptation of power worked on him, so he believes it will work on others.

    It's the Sith way. If the rule of 2 is followed, the only way to become a master is to kill the master.

    Remember, he makes the same offer to his son in Empire. He still hasn't learned that not everyone wants absolute power.

  24. JediPoodle

    JediPoodle Jedi Youngling

    Jun 8, 2005
    Anakin is totally a flip flopper! He is torn between his needs (Padme) and his wants (Power). He loves Padme, but it is a selfish love. It is about his desire to have what he wants, because he feels he deserves it. When Palpatine offers him the power he wants, he uses Padme as a reason to take it, but we know he really wanted it anyway. I don't believe he intended to kill Palp right then, I think he was using that because he thought he might lure Padme to his side by offereing her the same bait that he took. He was very arrogant, immature, and confused. I think as much as he felt he deserves the power and authority he got, he retained a piece of his humanity perhaps until he was beaten by Obi-Wan. So we see him kill Mace, then remorse for it, Kill younglings, then run to Padme because he told himself he'd done it for her, kill Seperatist leaders in full Sithly glory. then stand on the balcony shedding a tear. He's just a mental mess at this point. He's lost his mind. When Padme rejects him when he offers her power, he seems to have gone past the point of no return, humanity wise. Then what he sees as her betrayal of bringing Obi-Wan with her we truly see that he thinks of her in a very selfish manor. And I think that his actions here show he has zero regard for the child she's carrying. He's just gone mad.
    So basically, yes, he is quite the flip flopper along his descent into insanity.

  25. Greedo_forever

    Greedo_forever Jedi Youngling star 3

    May 24, 2005
    When I saw this the first time, I immediately thought: "He is so HIGH on delusions of grandeur that he thinks that he can do anything, like 'off-ing' Palpatine once he 'saves' Padme."

    Sure he's a flip-flopper: the Dark Side is wrought with betrayal and nasty-ness.
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