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"I am your father" as viewed by future generations

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by eclipseSD, Dec 31, 2002.

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  1. eclipseSD

    eclipseSD Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 11, 2002
    With the release of the PT, the "I am your father" may lesson.

    I feel that a good way to keep the shock level would be to view the saga in this order:

    ANH
    ESB
    TPM
    AOTC
    EP.III
    ROTJ

    This would keep the Vader shock, show the story surrounding it, and still wrap the saga up the way it was intended.

    Another way Lucas could keep the shock lies in Episode III.

    If there was a way to make it appear that Anakin is dead and that DV is a separate entity, then "I am your father" is still a shock. The saga could then be viewed in it's original order.

    However, with comments like this, maybe the shock should be dissipated.

    "It'll be a very different experience, because when Darth Vader walks into that spaceship with the princess, they're going to think, 'Oh my God, that's Anakin!' and they're gonna see Luke and think, 'Oh my God, that's his son!' And rather than a surprise when he says, 'I am your father,' it'll be like, 'Oh my God, finally he's told him!"

    -George Lucas
     
  2. YoungPadawanLearner

    YoungPadawanLearner Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2002
    I think I-VI is the best way to view them for the shock.


    But that's just MO
     
  3. jedi_master_ousley

    jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2002
    1-6.

    First reaction to "No, I am your father":

    [face_shocked]
     
  4. TheWombat

    TheWombat Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2002
    It's all gonna depend on how Lucas handles the hiding of the twins in Ep3
     
  5. qui-gon-kim

    qui-gon-kim Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2001
    Lucas isn't gonna hide the fact the fact that Anakin=Vader in Episode III. The important thing is not the audience's reaction to the revelation in ESB, but Luke's.

    Also, what about Yoda in ESB? When people first saw it, they thought he was a mindless creature. How come nobody talks about ruining that surprise (not that I mind.).
     
  6. SaberGiiett7

    SaberGiiett7 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2002
    That phrase was one of the key moments, if not the most key in the whole saga. I'm sure George has something up his sleeves for Ep3 to keep it that way for all the people who will view the films in the future. :D
     
  7. qui-gon-kim

    qui-gon-kim Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2001
    I'm sure George has something up his sleeves for Ep3 to keep it that way for all the people who will view the films in the future.

    No he isn't. If that happened, the events in ANH wouldn't make sense:

    Obi-Wan says that Vader was his student who killed Anakin. We know this to be a lie since we see Obi maim Anakin in Episode III. And why would Obi take another pupil so soon after he failed his last one?

    Vader: The circle is now complete. When I left you was was but the learner, now I am the master.

    Vader's comment would be meaningless if we didn't know he was Anakin.

    Face it, there will be no big "secret" about Vader's origin in Episode III.
     
  8. DarthKarde

    DarthKarde Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2002
    I agree with eclipseSD that 4,5,1,2,3,6 will be the best running order.
     
  9. qui-gon-kim

    qui-gon-kim Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2001
    I agree with eclipseSD that 4,5,1,2,3,6 will be the best running order.

    George Lucas would disagree with you. He has explicitly said that the films are meant to be seen in chronological order (1-6) Those of you who want to preserve the shock of "I am your father" are missing the point. That's not what's important. The main story is about Anakin Skywalker, his rise, his fall, and his eventual redemption, that's whta's important. It's much more effective to see it from the beginning, to see this innocent young boy, and the path he took took to acheive his destiny.
     
  10. DarthKarde

    DarthKarde Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2002
    George Lucas would disagree with you. He has explicitly said that the films are meant to be seen in chronological order (1-6) Those of you who want to preserve the shock of "I am your father" are missing the point. That's not what's important. The main story is about Anakin Skywalker, his rise, his fall, and his eventual redemption, that's whta's important. It's much more effective to see it from the beginning, to see this innocent young boy, and the path he took took to acheive his destiny.

    Well with all due respect to George Lucas his opinion is no more valid than any fan on what running order they prefer. It's not just about the 'I am your father' revelation anyway. ANH and ESB give us a far better introduction to the force than TPM does.
     
  11. Ret

    Ret Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 1999
    I knew Vader was his dad before I saw any of the films. It's pretty much common knowledge anyway.
     
  12. Otter

    Otter Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2001
    I liked all the surprises, Vader being Luke's father, Leia being his sister, the little, backward-talking gnome being a jedi master. These are a part of what makes the OT so good. The new movies don't reach this level of storytelling. It would be cool if Lucas could produce some great revelation in EpIII, but I've just about lost my faith in the man.
     
  13. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    No surprise could be greater than when in EpIII, nearly all good guys are wiped out, the one who was supposed to bring salvation becomes evil and the loveable Supreme Chancellor turns out to be the mastermind behind it all!
     
  14. Plo_Koen

    Plo_Koen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2001
    Vader's identity will NOT be kept secret in episode III, Lucas has said so himself in a recent interview.

    I think there will be new surprises for future generations, in the PT (we all know what's gonna happen, they don't) and in the OT. (i.e. seeing Obi-Wan, Owen, Beru, Yoda and Palpatine again, as old people)

    And Vader's revelation, although no longer a surprise, will still be a powerful scene.
     
  15. Frank1212

    Frank1212 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2001
  16. Plo_Koen

    Plo_Koen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2001
    LOL?

    What I am worried though, is that the PT will de-sensitize the future generations to the special effects in the OT. I had hoped for some sobriety in the PT, for the sake of continuity.

    foolish me.
     
  17. Obi-Ewan

    Obi-Ewan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2000
    If you watch in the order of 1,2,3,4,5,6, then the shock will not be when Vader tells Luke, but when Anakin becomes Vader. New shocks instead of old ones. Everyone who wants a big twist in Episode III fails to realize that the twist is that it goes in the direction of the old trilogy. If you think of yourself as a first time viewer, then everything we know already becomes a big twist. Anakin becomes a father. Anakin turns to dark side and becomes Vader. Padme dies. Palpatine is Sidious. That nice senator from the first movie is the bad guy. Bail Organa dies. Obi-Wan Kenobi dies. Yoda dies. Vader kills Palpatine.
     
  18. D_Lowe

    D_Lowe Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    As Lucas stated, it's going to be "He told him" rather then it being a surprise. If anybody has the 1995 release of the Classic Trilogy, there are interviews with George Lucas with Leonard Maltin and he said he never expected the surprise to be as big as it was.
     
  19. Master Salty

    Master Salty Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 1999
    I still don't see this as a surprise for the audience as much is it's surprise for the OT characters on screen. I think it will be more of a "Finally!" when Vader tells Luke the truth.
     
  20. D_Lowe

    D_Lowe Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    I agree with you Master Salty. And Lucas says so too. Hopefully people will learn that.
     
  21. Darth-Vengence

    Darth-Vengence Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I sure hope George can pull something off to kind of hint that Luke is Anakin's son, but not outright reveal it.

    You know what I mean?
     
  22. Esperanza_Nueva

    Esperanza_Nueva Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2003

    dramatic irony- knowing the fate of the characters while the characters remain clueless

    situational irony- events in the story turn out differently than expected

    IMHO, because of the order in which the 2 trilogies were made, depending on which you watch first, one will have dramatic irony and the other will have situational irony. Either way, each artistic style of telling a story should be commended.
     
  23. DarthMalifluous

    DarthMalifluous Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 11, 2002
    The "shock" of this statement is one of the all-time great cinematic reveals ever put on film. How is it that Lucas can so brazenly throw this aside is beyond me. Why would anyone ever want to rob future generations of this incredible moment? The "gasps" of complete surprise. I'm sorry, but George's pathetic idea of "oh, the audience will go - finally, he's told him" is such a lame excuse for poor plot design. Does he really buy into this? What a laugh-fest... watch episodes 1-6 in chronological order - what a bunch of crap! The only advantage of this is that dramatic tension can be built more effectively in the simple fact that newer generations will not necessarily know the outcome of each character's story arc. However, to blatently rob ever single generation of this supreme spine-chilling moment is no excuse for dirt-poor plot development IMO. There are so many different roads that George could've taken with the development of Anakin that could've heightened the dramatic and revelatory impact of this moment but alas, he chose the simplistic route.
     
  24. DamonD

    DamonD Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Esperanza_Nueva put it extremely well. If you already know the 'I am your father' secret, then you should already be viewing the PT in a different way to first-time viewers, noticing all the foreshadowing and so on.

    If you don't know the secret, then it'll be a shock by the time you get to ESB.

    I'd be interested to hear your alternatives to preserve this, DarthMalifluous. I just feel that too many focus on this moment as the single definition of Star Wars, which it isn't.
     
  25. DarthMalifluous

    DarthMalifluous Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 11, 2002
    Although I cannot speak for everyone (would never presume to do so) "I am you father" was the single moment that truely elevated Star Wars above the mediocre science-fantasy crap that plagued the late-70's early-80's. This single line gave tension to a farely myopic story (up to this point), a dramatic twist that completly shifted the paradigm's of the movie-going public, Mark Hamill's finest moment ;), and grounded the "saga" in something people could both completely identify with and connect on an even deeper level with the characters... the notion of blood and family. This single line had more subconcious underpinnings than just about any other cinematic reveal. This single line completely elevated ESB, which was already a better picture technically speaking than ANH, and gave Star Wars the financial legs that it has today (again all my own opinion).

    Also, and I'm sure that everyone realizes this, but with the simple "Skywalker" name being bandied about in both the PT and OT, it won't take any sort of sluggish genius to figure out that Luke is Vader's son... unless of course Lucas has a brilliant twist to that whole story device that we can't even concieve of.

    Go LUCAS!
     
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