Lit I feel like Crimson Empire III is pretty underrated.

Discussion in 'Literature' started by IG_2000, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. IG_2000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2008
    star 4
    Sure, it has alot of wasted potential with the whole "going after Luke" storyline, but I'm going through it again while updating all of the Wook's related articles on the matter and its not nearly a half bad storyline.
  2. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    I never realized it was finished.
  3. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

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    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    I completely agree. It definitely has its issues but I for one was overall satisfied with it.
    Esg likes this.
  4. HedecGa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2006
    star 4
    It helped that I read all 3 CE volumes in one sitting. I was really impressed with how much they pulled in from Part 2. I thought CEII was a pretty weak installment, but III managed to do some interesting things with the loose threads. And I loved how they still wrote Nom Anor as though they had no idea NJO was around the corner. I was very satisfied with the ending.
  5. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah, I was also surprised on rereading them how cohesive it really is overall. I think a good example of that is the Feena clone in CE3, which would come out of nowhere if you hadn't read CE2.

    Now, to a degree this might be a fault if you're reading 3 separately. And normally I don't think it's ever a good sign when comics authors feel the need to insert an asterisk saying "For an explanation look to issue #whatever". But then again, if you're reading something like CE why wouldn't you read it in order? I think in this case it's a testament to just how solid a story the overall trilogy is despite part 3 having been written after such a long delay.
  6. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

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    Oct 16, 2008
    star 5
    Oh yeah, forgot to tell you. Crimson Empire III actually happened. Apparently it's pretty underrated.
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  7. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    It was a nostalgic look at the New Republic Era. With tons of little EU nods in it. My biggest complaint was the art. No disrespect to the artist, but the style just didn't work for me. Overall, I think the CE III was a nice cap to the series.

    --Adm. Nick
  8. Shepherd492 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2011
    star 1
    I'm with AdmiralNick on the art, I don't think I've ever seen more pathetic faces in any comic (especially the Solo children, they were actually somewhat frightening) but the actual story was very solid. It is definitely much better than the negative reviews/apathy it got when it was being released as a monthly. It probably tried to do a few too many things than was needed or workable (much like Invasions with its many unneeded cameos) but the main story was very good and I did appreciate getting a New Republic era comic for once.
  9. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2006
    star 4
    DJ? Is that you?

    I was underwhelmed by CE III. I thought that the Restored Empire and Devian were kind of cool, but at the end of the day, they weren't any different than any of the New Republic era's other warlords of the week. Sure, the narrative wanted to use a corrupt group of Palpatine loyalists to demonstrate that Kanos had moved on from being a slave to his past, but the fact that Devian was never really loyal to Palpatine to begin with kind of undermined that whole concept.

    Nom Anor and Vima-da-Boda felt shoehorned in. The latter's cameo didn't amount to anything --- she told Luke Devian's name, and Luke did absolutely nothing with that knowledge. He didn't act on it, and he failed to trust Kanos to the very end despite the threat of Devian. It was kind of annoying.

    Sinn's characterization continued to be all over the place. The first issue had her yet again vow to kill Kanos, which seemed like an attempt to backtrack and apologize for her random character regression in CE II that turned her into a damsel in distress who was so happy to be rescued by the big hunky hero. I couldn't bring myself to care about their relationship at all. I also got tired of the whole "dedicate half of the first issue to Kanos beating up a group of thugs just to remind everyone how tough he is" schtick long ago.

    CE III did have some great aspects --- General Solo, Pellaeon, the ruse involving the Feena clone --- and the good probably outweighed the bad --- but I think I largely agree with what Duracell Energizer said here:

    It felt more like a spinoff with a cursory connection to the first two than it did a sequel or even a spiritual successor. Things like a shoehorned-in Nom Anor cameo didn't do anything to diminish that.
    Barriss_Coffee likes this.
  10. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Mirith Sinn wanting to kill Kanos never made any sense either since killing her friend was obviously an accident.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Nov 4, 2012
  11. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    I found it amusing how someone so fanatically loyal to the Emperor spent all his time fighting Imperials and teamed up with the NR.
  12. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    It's a nice contrast. Kir Kanos has no loyalty to the Empire. He's loyal to the Emperor.
  13. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    do you think Crimson Empire will be Omnibuses or should I just buy the trilogy?
  14. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Well there's the hardcover with all three, which is basically its omnibus I guess.
  15. JediAlly Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2000
    star 4
    I admit that a potential storyline - Kir Kanos going after Luke - had been lost, but at the same time, I suppose I can see how Kir Kanos and Mirith Sinn have both "burned" themselves out and want nothing more than to go into retirement and drift into EU limbo.
  16. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    If the pacing had been better, with a quicker build-up and more space allocated for the finale battles, it would have been far stronger. I mean, it has Pellaeon destroying a fleet of Acclimators off-panel! WHY? :_| Similarly the Devian-Kanos duel was quite truncated - an extra issue could have made all the difference.
    Last edited by Jedi Ben, Nov 5, 2012
  17. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    You know, I was thinking about this a bit recently, and it made me wonder how CE might have more impact if it had been set before Dark Empire, rather than after. As Ace and Charles say, Kanos was always loyal to the Emperor, not so much to the Empire. Thus the fact that he walks away from the 'Empire' at the end of CE3 doesn't have as much meaning for me as I would have liked. Palpatine is dead so Kanos never really has to come to terms/reject his support of him - he can leave the remains of his system behind, even work with the NR, while as far as we know if another Palpatine clone emerged he would still drop everything to flock to his side.

    (On this line of thought, now that we know Kanos survived, I'd be interested to see his reaction to the YJK false Emperor. You'd think Kanos wouldn't be too happy with A) Besmirching the memory of the Emperor through phonies, and B) Impersonating Royal Guards. I think there could be an interesting story there.)

    But imagine if the first CE began right after ROTJ, or at least some time after it. You could still have the storyline about Kanos going against the 'disloyal' Guards (perhaps the ones who flocked to Isard). You could still have him vow to hunt down Luke to get revenge for his role in Palpatine's death. You could still have him turn against any one of a number of warlords who might want him on their side, but him not seeing them as a true heir of Palpatine. But you could then have him realize the errors of Palpatine himself and come to terms with that - then have it actually resonate by him refusing to join with the clone Emperor. Or perhaps him even being the one to sabotage Palpatine's clones, although I imagine fan reaction might be a bit more hostile to that.
  18. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I remember reading he did oppose them
  19. TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff

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    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2001
    star 5
    The hardcovers are better than the traditional omnibuses--go for it!

    TC
  20. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    You mean in binding terms TC? Had thought DHC's hardcovers of this type (CE, DE, TTT) were the same size as Omnibuses.
  21. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

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    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    Well, who do you think is finally going to kill Daala?

    Man, THAT would be a CE worth reading.
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  22. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2006
    star 4
    Yeah, after all, she was using a Royal Guard in Darksaber, IIRC.

    I would buy at least six copies of a comic that was about an Empire that was crimson with Daala's blood.
    Last edited by Jeff_Ferguson, Nov 15, 2012
  23. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I enjoyed this because of the Imperial stuff. D'asta and the clone of his daughter, Pellaeon and such. Everything Luke wasn't very good, but overall I still feel it was a lot of fun.
  24. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    I was never quite that big a fan of Crimson Empire to be honest. The first one was cool, the second sounded not quite as good. Just not that big a fan of Imperial protagonists, especially one fanatically loyal to Palpatine. The first one worked as while Luke and the others were on his kill list, they were lower priority compared to Imperial traitors, so he was sort of similar to Mara Jade in that aspect, and there was a strong sort of anti-hero vibe in the first one. The overall plot started breaking down a bit by the second one unfortunately.

    The long, long gap between CE2 and CE3 didn't help, but while it was very nostalgic to see the New Republic era again (and to see the three Solo kids when they were still innocent, bad art aside), it still basically came down to Kanos killing disloyal Imps and warlord of the week. Not to mention adding the idea of a peace treaty between the New Republic and Imperial Remnant a bit too early. Although the Warfare guide does have a somewhat detailed summary of that general period, that Pellaeon was hoping to maintain a decent chunk of Imperial territory with Orinda as a capital, but it didn't work out.

    The Luke characterization was a particular low point unfortunately, one of the worst actually, and it doesn't help that we had out of character Luke played against Kanos so Luke comes off as the antagonist (you can't trust him, don't trust him, hm, I'll contribute nothing significant, and no, just flying a shuttle doesn't really count as really, a cliffhanger of "Luke dying!" is not a cliffhanger). We occasionally have EU characters one-up movie characters, but when the characterization is that off, it really hurts the story. I had read CE2 beforehand so I knew about the clone, but still kind of jarring for Baron D'asta to almost literally just replace his daughter with a clone. Its mostly just making the best of a situation but still.

    Also I was quite excited at the idea of seeing old Venators and Acclamators taking on Imperial-class Star Destroyers, and the idea of hidden fleets sounds just like Palpatine, but sadly most of that action was off-screen. And at least we did get a few more nice New Republic ship pictures (a Dauntless, I think), as well as a few Mon Cal cruisers and we really haven't seen much of them lately.

    But still nothing I would remember distinctly from this series in another few years, unfortunately. Vima cameo aside, and New Republic nostalgia, it was more like it didn't fulfill its potential (really bad Luke characterization aside) than anything else.
    Last edited by Nobody145, Nov 16, 2012
    Jeff_Ferguson likes this.
  25. LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Games Mod

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    May 25, 2002
    star 8
    I just got the Crimson Empire Saga HC from Amazon UK. It's more novel-sized than omnibus-sized, which surprised me. It's a bit taller and wider cover-wise than an omnibus, and about 500 pages long. (I'm guesstimating as the CE Handbook at the end doesn't seem to have page numbers.)