PT I find their lack of skills disturbing

I think in the scene Palpatine should have used the Force to take out one at least, like "it's treason then...." BAM, ZAP Lightningh slamming one of the Jedi against the Wall. He goes for Mace, Mace blocks it with his Sabre, another Jedi comes at Palpatine he breaks the lightning and uses the force to throw him out the window. Now he pulls out his Lightsabre and leaps and quickly dispatches another Jedi, Then a better duel between Mace and Palpatine can begin.

A true show of "Force"!

 

I actually think something like that is a great idea. Palps could use various force powers on everyone except Windu (lighting, maybe fling one out the window... whatever)... and then portray Windu as the only master powerful enough to withstand Palpatines force powers which then leads to a saber duel (similar to Yoda/Dooku in AOTC)

 

Precisely! (though I'm still not sure how i feel about Yoda in a lightsabre fight haha)

 

There are about a hundred ways in which that scene could have been better executed. It just demonstrates how really terrible Lucas is as a director.


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I think the scene is perfect as it is. Just goes to show how great Lucas is as a director.

 

Of course I didn't feel that way in the least. Totally the opposite really.

It was totally awesome to see him in action.

For whatever reason some fans were, are and always have been against Sidious and Yoda fighting anyone including each other.

Like somehow two of the most powerful Force users ever couldn't use a Lightsaber.

Not in the least as the OT is after the PT.

Yoda had his last fight with Sidious, couldn't defeat him so his days of dueling were done forever.

Works perfectly because otherwise in the OT that Yoda for all his power did nothing himself to go after the Emperor except to wait for Luke.

There is a reason why Lucas made it so that neither Vader nor Sidious even question Luke's training past Obi-Wan's death. In the novelization of ROTJ Sidious does make a reference to Yoda and Lucas certainly thought about addressing it in some way (or course Yoda's spirit does deflect the lighting in earlier drafts of the movie).

 

The fact that Yoda and Sidious use a lightsaber is a separate issue. The sillyness is due to the performance itself. The lightsaber moves that McDiarmid displayed, when he dispatched three Jedi masters, could have been blocked by a padawan. It would have worked, if the moves were lightning fast or if he used some incredible technique, but as it played out, it just looked like the Jedi were standing there, waiting to be killed.

 

Obviously then Mace should have brought some Padawans with him!!

Really I don't get it.

They have no idea of the power of Palpatine.

One second they sense nothing in the Force then the Dark Side erupts in total fury they are stunned at the power he had for a moment or two and by then the first two are dead already and Fisto lasts a few seconds more.

I watched the movie over and over again in the theaters and never for one second saw a thing wrong with anything that happened. It was only after hearing some complaints and being able to break it down on DVD that I could even pretend to begin to understand what they were talking about.

It seems to me they watching it in slow motion and then asking why this and why that?

I don't see why it's so hard to believe that the only Jedi that would have had any chance at all against Sidious were Yoda and Mace and everyone else was nothing to him.

 

I agree with this... I think the problem is the execution - not the fact he used a lightsaber.

You don't see as many threads complaining about the Sidious/Yoda duel because it was much better executed

 

It's not about believing, it's about what you see. It's not enough that you tell people Sidious is powerful, we need to see it happen on screen. Looking at Sidious killing these Jedi Masters reminds me of a rigged boxing match. You see, that one guy is telegraphing his punches, and the other should be able to block them easily, yet somehow the guy keeps getting hit. So, you think he's throwing the match. The same is true for Sidious. The moves he makes in the film, are so slow, that the Jedi should have seen them coming from miles away.



Just look at the move Sidious makes at 40 seconds into the clip. It literally takes him two seconds to stab the guy. Anybody could have seen that one coming, yet somehow this trained Jedi Master just stands there, and let's himself get killed.

 

One possibility that nobody has considered yet is that Sidious could have tried to force freeze the jedi (Kylo Ren style). It may have worked on the first 2 but not Mace of Fisto. So he essentially strikes down 2 defenseless masters who are force frozen then wins a short duel with Kitt Fisto then on to Mace...

 

And we do see it.

Which is exactly what happens.

Which one?

There are 4 of them and one of him.

Again it's 4 on 1 or 1 on 4.

I can't say I ever thought about it for one second (which is less than it takes for that move).

I look at it over and again and see no problem at all.

The only thing I can at all identify is that for some reason you think the first Jedi that was struck knew that he was going to be the one struck first. He lands right in front of them rears back and lighting fast strikes him.

Again this is the Dark Lord of the Sith. We see him cut down 3 masters like they were nothing and the second most powerful dude around is the only one of them who has any chance. For some reason I think some people think that every Jedi is the same which is clearly not true. In AOTC Jango kills a Jedi by firing multiple blasts at him. He can't handle it. When he tried the same thing on Mace he had his head handed to him (literally1)

Whatever it is you see I simply don't.

 

He could have thrown all the pillars, furniture and sculptures in the room against the doors, crushing the Jedi...

What I find weird is that he was so much better at swordfighting than they were, despite the fact that they trained against other Jedi every day of their lives and spent the last three years deflecting blaster bolts with their lightsabers, while Palpatine didn't have anybody to spar against, and had to spend most of his time doing his work as Senator/Chancellor.

I mean, yes, he was trained by Plagueis, but they parted ways and spent decades in different planets, meeting only now and then. And he trained Darth Maul later, but Maul died thirteen years before his fight against Mace Windu...

Shouldn't those Jedi have an advantage when it come to swordfighting skill?

Can you train against robots and such and become really good, without need to spar against other Force-sensitives?
Or maybe Force-sensitives can keep their skill for a long time without training?
Or maybe having a strong connection to the Force is more important to lightsaber fencing than training is?

 

Palpatine fought Maul and Savage several months earlier.



He can also make time to keep up his skills.

 

Yep, but, how? As I said, can you keep your level just sparring against droids and such?

 

It might be due what you look at, the end result or how it was achieved.
If you look at the end result, he killed four Jedi master, that is awesome.
If you look at how it was achieved, then there are problems.

It is kind of like this, imagine that a regular guy with little to no training go up against four martial arts experts, who all have a black belt in karate. And he not only beats them, he beats them with ease, making very slow punches that they fail to block and they make very slow attacks at him.
Would this make the guy look impressive or make the four martial arts experts look bad?

To me, three of the four Jedi master either seem to think "hmm.. how does this glowy thing work?" or they are using the ancient Jedi technique of "Standing there and letting your opponent kill you."
The Mace fight is little better. Several of the attacks are slow, clumsy or telegraphed far too clearly.
Just before Palpatine looses his lightsaber, he makes a very slow and careless lunge at Mace, who easily side steps and had Mace stabbed backwards and to his right, Palpatine would be dead.

To me, the PT had many fights that had good choreography, this wasn't one of them.

At the start, Palpatine stands up and takes out his lightsaber, the Jedi see this and he even makes a comment, "it is treason then." before he jumps at them. So they clearly saw that he was not going to come quietly. Yet he manages to take two of them by surprise.

In closing, it didn't make Palpatine look good, it made the other four look bad.

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

I think speeding up Sidious with CG in post production would have given the effect Lucas was looking for. I agree that it could have been done a bit better, but it still works for me.

 

Saber skills had been passed from Sith to Sith for a thousand years or more. Darth Plagueis trained Sidious in saber combat and Sidious helped train Darth Maul, Count Dooku, and may have even helped with General Grievous.

Sidious was no slouch with a saber and didn't spar with droids. During the PT timeframe I'm sure he trained with Maul and then Dooku quite a bit.

 

As I said, he didn't spar with Maul for thirteen years, and Dooku was pretty busy, he couldn't leave Serenno (and later the Separatist command) to spar with Sidious every day, or even every week.

Kid Fisto and the others, on the othe hand, spent a few hours every day sparring with each other, and had spent the last three years constantly deflecting blaster shoots from droid armies.

 

I can take Sideous as the superior swordsman, But it didn't look like Skill that defeated the other Jedi, More how bad they were, They wern't overpowered or out skilled, they just couldn't block simple attacks, these are Jedi Masters who look weak as hell. It was poorly executed.

 

Live sparring isn't required. Just working on your skills alone can do wonders. Sure, there is no substitute for experience. But not even practicing the skills at all is even more foolish. That's where muscle memory comes in. Luke, if you will note, does not train against Yoda. Yet he is able to do very well against his father. More so the second time.

 

I really really love the scene, but have never been overly pleased with how the non-Windu jedi were dispatched. It's not a deal breaker, but definitely worth noting.

 

100% agreed. Again shows a lack of vision on Lucas's part. In AotC a couple dozen Jedi can stand their ground vs. 100s of droids and then in RotS they "fight" like they've never been in a fight before. If Lucas didn't have anything for them to do, they just shouldn't have been there. An embarassing, lazy, and disgraceful scene.

 

Um, plenty of jedi died in the arena. Did you forget about that part? The remaining jedi would have died if not for Dooku ordering the droids to seize fire

 

While I agree the scene really didn't work.... I don't think ti was because they were being lazy.... it just didn't work.

The only films where I really noticed Lucas and team being lazy are ROTJ and AOTC. The shot of the executor crashing into the 2nd Death Star is just completely terrible. I have no idea why they didn't clean that up or replace it for the SE (esp since they wasted time and money with crap like Jedi Rocks that actually made the movie worse)