main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

A/V SOLO: A Star Wars Story (untagged spoilers allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Jul 9, 2015.

  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I don't think that's accurate to say- the Phase One lineup weren't exactly all "name directors" outside of Branagh and maybe Whedon.

    People tend to forget that Iron Man basically made Favreau's directing career a "name"- before IM1 he essentially had only Elf (a hit) and an unadvertised sequel to Jumanji (a bomb).

    Whedon had only directed TV shows and Serenity (based on a TV show) before Avengers. Not too different from many of the Phase Two and beyond directors.

    And Johnston, while known to geeks via his Lucas and Spielberg history, was really only a name as a director for a few years in the early 90's. Before Captain America the only recent high profile films he had done was the Wolfman remake (which probably wasn't released before he was hired on Cap) and JP3 ten years prior (not exactly a feather in his cap). But, granted, at least he was a name at some point.

    Still, it's not like they were coming out of the gate with a roster of big name directors and scaling back afterwards.
     
    TheRedBlade likes this.
  2. DelRiego

    DelRiego Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2002
    I'm curious about why many people say Colin Trevorrow is practically a time bomb? Is it because of that recent Book of Henry movie?

    I mean I liked Safety not guaranteed, Jurassic World was utterly forgettable but made bank. Did he do anything else to deserve the animosity?
     
  3. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Partly. "Book of Henry" was apparently extraordinarily bad, but in addition to its own quality the issue is also that it's sort of thrown his qualifications in general into question. It's been noted that there are recurring problems with his writing of female characters (in addition to his films, there's a rather troubling short that's surfaced), and more generally it's sort of dubious that one successful indie movie and one apparently-mediocre blockbuster - which was a huge success financially, but was also basically guaranteed to make money - is enough of a resume to be trusted with something as significant as the conclusion to the Star Wars sequel trilogy.

    Like, I don't know if I'd say he's practically a time bomb, but he definitely fits into an apparent pattern of poor judgment calls in terms of director choices.
     
  4. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Star Wars - Han Solo (Lego) would have been a great movie.
     
  5. darthcaedus1138

    darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Get ready for a lot of the same, people. The assembly line has started up and they're just trying to make sure the product doesn't have quirks that may make it distasteful to large audiences.

    I saw a tweet the other day that said "As long as I see things I remember, I will clap." This was certainly a sarcastic comment, but that's the bullseye LFL is trying to hit right now. I hope things change eventually, but for now TFA is the model, not the outlier of what they're trying to do.
     
  6. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Personally, I find Lord & Miller's previous output pretty generic, especially the style of humour (the endless riffing style of improv which sometimes tends to grind a film to a halt) and not particularly quirky. The script for LEGO Movie was quirky and interesting, but I don't think the direction showed much of the same. I'd much rather have a film like Han Solo be strong on character over quirk.
     
    DelRiego likes this.
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
  8. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Well reasoned, but I feel like that's overall mildly over-positive - like I've been saying, while we don't have any knowledge to really say what this means in terms of QUALITY, there does seem like there's kind of a pattern of BTS drama.

    But I love the title.
     
    vncredleader and CooperTFN like this.
  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Well, I'm hard pressed to see how my position of not caring could be seen as positive but OK.....
     
    vncredleader likes this.
  10. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Well, 1) you're an exceptionally negative outlier so I tend to take that with a LARGE grain of salt, and 2) it still seems to be in line with the tone being less "don't panic" (which is valid) than "everything is fine" (which is a little overly positive).

    Like, for instance, I agree with your point about Ant-Man and think it's a fair reminder that a troubled production doesn't mean a bad movie, but it doesn't really mean anything in terms of the question of why LFL is just 2 for 6 on director choices.
     
    Jedi Ben likes this.
  11. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Hmm, should I really ask if 1) = compliment or insult? Then again, my opinion of LFL had already plummeted like an enthusiastic lemming in freefall so.....
     
  12. DelRiego

    DelRiego Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2002
  13. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    They're just quoting SWNN who are the only ones to report Erenreich as a whistleblower so far. I don't personally believe it otherwise I feel that one of the big trades would've also heard something. They could be right but at this stage I'd hold off on counting that as fact.
     
  14. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Ehrenreich: I dunno guys. I mean I get you want to end the film so it lines up with ANH, but I don't want to do the Greedo scene. Greedo doesn't shoot first.
    Lord: Yes.
    Miller: He does.
    Ehrenreich: I uh... I just don't feel this is right.
    Lord: Oh don't worry. We shot it from multiple angles this time.
    Miller: There is no doubt now.
    ***
    Kasdan: Oh hi Kathy, I heard you were previewing the footage today. Mind if I join?
    Kennedy: Not at all.
    *As they begin watching The Scene, Kennedy shifts uncomfortably. Sweat begins to bead on Kasdan's brow. As the multi-angle shot-of-a-shot commences, Kasdan charges at the screen wildly swinging his chair about his head and brings it down on the projector. Again. And again. And again.
     
  15. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    BREAKING NEWS
    LFL fires publicist team, M&L, in charge of Lord and Miller cleanup.

    Rumor has it that the blame shifting from Kennedy to Kasdan to Aidan was a bit .... slapstick. We told them the truth. This was all at the behest of Chewie, but M&L refused to tarnish the most loved Star Wars character of all time. In hindsight, we should have asked Ron Howard to take the arrows. Nobody can hold a grudge against Opie."
     
    Sarge likes this.
  16. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    I agree that Marvel wasn't hiring really big mainstream names (aside from Branagh). But what I should have emphasize more is that, as I said, they were specifically directors with "strong visions" who were hired for "talent and vision," meaning that Marvel wanted these directors specifically to provide their own visions for the movies -- the kind of auteurism and directorial heft that we're talking about with name directors. Marvel felt that it needed Joss Whedon to make The Avengers work just as much as Joss Whedon needed Marvel to boost his career. Now that it's a self-sustaining machine, they don't feel the need for Whedon. They're quite content to make do with the Russos, who, for all the virtues of their Captain America movies, will never be confused with visionary auteurs. You can immediately describe to me the characteristics of a Whedon project -- but try telling me the distinguishing characteristics of a Russo brothers project (whatever a Russo brothers project might be, since all their work has been directing someone else's project for hire, and also You, Me, and Dupree). They wanted Joe Johnston to do his Rocketeer thing and make Captain America work -- they wanted him specifically. What, exactly, did they specifically want out of directors-for-hire the Russos? Using "name" was maybe a mistake, but the point is that they went from using directors who had leverage of their own to using directors with no leverage.
     
    Dr. Steve Brule likes this.
  17. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Fair enough- though, as you say, we won't have a good idea of what makes a Russos film until we see what they do past Cap and Avengers since they obviously crafted a very specific style for those films that they may not necessarily carry over to non-Marvel projects in the future.

    But I'm not sure I'd say Marvel wasn't still looking for directors who could bring what Marvel wanted to their films the same as they did for Phase One. They wanted Shakespeare, Rocketeer and Wit for the latter part of Phase One, so they chose appropriate directors. They wanted psuedo-Lethal Weapon (IM3), Game of Thrones (TDW), quirky (GOTG) and comedic (AM1) for Phase Two and hired directors that had that background (or replaced them with other directors that also did). The Russos being the wild card and Whedon being the obvious "it worked out really well for us last time" returning name.

    But, not to stray too far into Marvel, I think LFL, while clearly being somewhat influenced by the Marvel release model (as per the previous "Episodes are Avengers, Anthology are solo films" comparison) aren't taking it that far, nor are they both experiencing the same "get names then go safe" bleed-off you suggest.

    I think LFL has taken much more risk than Marvel (outside of the Russos and, maybe, giving Gunn such a big budget) in their selections so far (except for JJ as a kick-off and, now, Howard as a clean-up) and that risk means that sometimes you're going to run into situations where things don't work out like one expects. LFL (and Marvel) simply have the luxury of being able to correct for those problems when they happen.
     
    Barriss_Coffee likes this.
  18. MartyAvidianus

    MartyAvidianus Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    May 14, 2017
    can it be Han Solo is the best, we don't speak about episode VIII?
     
  19. La Calavera

    La Calavera Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Some more on "what he said, she said" about this whole mess:

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...ls-behind-phil-lord-chris-miller-exit-1016619

    What LFL team says:

    What L&M team says:

    Also:

    - They fired the editor Chris Dickens (not a very well-known guy, won several awards for his editing on Slumdog Millionaire, also edited Les Misérables, Macebeth, and my personal favorite Shaun of the Dead), and replaced him with Oscar-winner Pietro Scalia (The Martian, Alien: Covenant, Gladiator, Memoirs of a Geisha, etc)

    - They hired an acting coach, aledgelly because LFL were not happy about Ehrenreich's performance of Han Solo so far.



    Interesting that they are thoroughly replacing the weird, unconventional artistic types with the Oscar-winning type of guys.

    But on the hiring of an acting coach... I wonder if LFL has yet to realize that, no matter what they do, it's going to be very, very difficult for fans to disassociate Han Solo from Harrison Ford? I wouldn't bother much with the acting, most have already accepted Alden Ehrenreich as an alternative take on the same character and it's cool.

    I still remember when I saw SW for the first time in VHS. It was right after I had seen Indiana Jones, both movies I had rented from the movie shop with my father (it was my decision btw, not a result of “father introduced kid daughter to SW”. My father was always a Trekkie. But I wanted to see SW and Indiana Jones because I liked the covers). And being a kid at that time, for a moment I thought Han Solo and Indiana Jones was the same character. Like, crossing universes or something. My father told me it was a totally different character, but I think my mind only started dissociating the two characters when I watched the following movies.

    The thing about Han Solo is that, Harrison Ford was that character. It was a combination of GL’s clunky dialogue, Kasdan’s script and Ford’s unique charisma and improvisation skills. But mostly, it was Ford acting like he naturally would in those circumstances, with his signature way of responding to things.

    I wonder if that’s what L&M saw in Han Solo too, that it was the personality of the actor that made the character the character, not just what was on the script. Maybe that’s why they were pushing for improvisation. And maybe that’s also why LFL fired them and hired an acting coach for Alden Ehrenreich to improve less and act more like Harrison Ford, a person that he is not.
     
  20. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Sounds like the round-peg / square hole attempt with Lord and Miller wasn't making the hammer wielder happy so they decided to get a square peg. Uhm, no offense Ron.
     
    Jester J Binks likes this.
  21. QuentinGeorge

    QuentinGeorge Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Guys. What if the twist is that Kasdan was the hack all along. [face_plain]
     
  22. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Really not liking the trashing being dished out on L&M by LFL. Do they deserve it? I don't know. Wasn't there. But LFL already had the upperhand in the ability to fire them. You don't chase them down the street throwing rocks at them when L&M left with a very neutral "creative differences" explanation. It is almost as if they are bullying L&M into having to defend themselves.

    I was really disgusted with one of the articles that listed everything Disney felt was wrong with L&M and concluded with the entire crew clapping with Howard's announcement as replacement. The article practically re-enacted L&M being thrown down a shaft and the SW galaxy celebrating.

    Whatever happened to the obligatory "we wish them well"? At this point, I'd probably give L&M a pass if they started speaking out. I'm actually surprised that they haven't yet. It really makes one think "OK. Which of these two parties seems like the problem when it comes to getting along with the other?" Surprised two relatively young directors know how to play the PR game better than the combined Disney/LFL giant.
     
  23. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    I haven't really seen LFL trash L&M yet. So far it seems they're just moving on. The whistleblower seems to be the most antagonistic of the lot (with dramatics like Kennedy didn't like the way L&M folded their socks, etc). I wonder who that guy/gal really is? Because the news outlets are trusting that person a lot.
     
  24. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Well, the leaker(s) are LFL. The key grip doesn't have all the details on the relationships and the production that are coming out. They're coming from somewhere high up the production chain. And if LFL didn't want these details to come out, the situation would look a lot different. Remember Rogue One, when the reshoots situation leaked out? It was a vague intimation the movie was in trouble and a lot of confusion over just how extensive the reshoots would be because only limited information came out, and then LFL came out and said, no, these are just normal reshoots, nothing to worry about here, and did damage control designed to minimize the controversy and make the movie look on track.

    Here, we've got extensive anonymous explanations of details about exactly what went wrong practically exploding all over the media. And LFL isn't coming out and saying, no, things weren't that bad, the movie is on track, it was just creative differences, we denounce all these rumors about bad blood, we're all professionals here. LFL is sitting silent while its producers badmouth Lord and Miller to the trade publications anonymously. They're not disputing anything that's said. It's all either coming from the top or tacitly approved by the top. LFL is, if not explicitly embracing a strategy of trashing Lord and Miller, at least tacitly endorsing it. It's no coincidence the full blast of leaks has had the characteristic of a campaign against Lord and Miller and has been so utterly one-sided to make LFL look good.
     
  25. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Yeah, everything Havac said... Lucasfilm has the proverbial iron grip, it's always been the case. If they didn't want people leaking this, then it wouldn't get out. If anything, I think this is pre-emptive damage control from Lucasfilm. They badmouth Lord & Miller and make it seem like they wasted the last few months filming garbage. The fanbase is primed to expect a garbage movie. If the movie comes out and is at least decent after months of people being told that it's going to be terrible, then it only has a small bar to jump over quality-wise for the fanbase to praise Kennedy and Kasdan and Ron Howard are for saving the movie from the terrible hack interlopers. And if the movie comes out and still gets bad reviews, well, everyone will have had months of being told how badly Lord and Miller messed it up.

    Basically Lucasfilm trashing Lord and Miller is win-win for them.