Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by UK Sullustian, Sep 17, 2012.
I could care less as I have never even seen the original versions.
Please, there'd be something else for someone to complain about. There's always some form of complaints that people will find fault with.
The thing is that while there are those who like to be ***** about it, there are just as many more who are deadly serious. That's the sad part.
The point is that he prefers the public to see the versions that he would rather endorse, than the versions that he had to make do with. That's his right and the right of any other director, or producer who has creative control.
so I'll say again - what of public heritage ? The movie that millions flocked to , a key historical piece of art , just hide it away then ?
The movie is still the same. Just gussied up with new special effects and a couple of deleted scenes put back in. I mean, if he really wanted to be a **** about it, he would have just never re-released the films and definitely not fixed them up. But no, he just did what he wanted to do and put them out again. Just his way. I've said it before, if he had the time and technology back then, the OT would look like it does. Maybe not every detail, but most of it.
I love how you guys always forget to mention he deleted scenes from two original actors in the movies. Clive Rivell was the original Emperor in ESB was deleted in 2004 DVD and Sebastian Shaw was deleted as a Force Ghost in ROTJ 2004 DVD. So it wasn't just effects, it was deleleting actors and changing a directors work (Shaw & Director Marquand are both dead). That's disrespectful and creepy if you ask me!
I wouldn't call that creepy. Palpatine in TESB was just a makeshift thing. It was Revell doing the voice and a women with monkey eyes superimposed, on screen. It only makes sense to replace that with McDiarmid. As to Shaw, well, he's still in the film. As to Marquand, again, he was a hired gun. Same with Kershner. They both knew that going in.
Who are George Lucas's agent? I didnt know you were in the contract negotiations in 1980 & 1983 when Lucas hired a director and he told them he would change the movies 20 years later.
Please tell me more about your conversations with George Lucas.....
If it were that way, why then does he often undo his own changes like the Luke scream in Bespin or Obi-Wan's yell. If he had a clear picture about what SW should be, he wouldn't muck around with his own changes so much.
Yet the internet is THE ONLY place I have EVER heard anyone complain about the changes. I have not heard even one person in real life, even those who professed to be big SW fans, talk about the different OT editions!!
It is neither disrespectful or even REMOTELY creepy to replace a stand-in with the Saga's real actor for that character.
'Stand-in'...? 'Real actor'...?
The last time I checked ESB was filmed in 1980,. and McDiarmid didn't play the Emperor until 1983. He was not a 'stand-in' actor in 1980, he WAS the Emperor. If Lucas had this grand vision of changing McDiarmid to play in ESB, why didn't he re-shoot this scene in the 1997 Special Editions??? Seems like no one had a problem with Rivell in 1980 or 1997, but then again, you guys will defend Lucas on ANYTHING.
If he made a change where Luke was taking a crap on Dagobah instead of entering the cave, I'm sure you guys would find some defense to justify Lucas's decision.
And what's your defense for deleting Shaw on the force ghost scene, was he just a stand-in too??? Atleast Rivell is alive when the change was made, as Shaw died in 1994, so Lucas essentially really deleted a dead guy from the movie!
1.) Shaw was not deleted from the movie. He was replaced for a newer version of the film in one single mini scene.
Lucas didn't confiscante every available copy of the film in the world and replaced it with a version of a new force ghost.
2.) Shaw is still in every available newly released copy of the film, playing unmasked Darth Vader. Think of all the actors who played Padmé's family, the signed for the film and were never seen (apart from bonus material on DVDs) on screen. That's business.
3.) Do you really think Shaw cares?
This Rivell guy (never heart of him) could at least feel bad now, but I don't think Shaw cares a bit in his grave if he's in one or two scenes of a film he worked on for two days 40 years ago.
See, I certainly don't support every alteration Lucas made, but these are his films and it is his right to release new versions of the films every time he wants. Your local bakery is also free to alter the recipe for their delicious apple pie whenever they want. Their former recipe of the apple pie did not become "publicly owned" and the baker isn't "indebted" to offer two versions of his apple pie coexistently.
He died in 1994 before the change was made.
They were told they were cut from the movie. Unless Lucas can talk to the dead, I doubt he was able to let Shaw know he was deleting him at the end of the movie, or was able to tell Marquand who died in 1987 that he was going to alter his work on ROTJ too.
Maybe Lucas needs to see the kid from The Sixth Sense?
but it's not the same , a number of the changes are highly controversial , always have been , and Lucas's ethics on this matter are very hypocritical , I admire him for many things , but on this issue he's a massive hypocrite .
I can't believe I missed this classic quote.
If they are the same movies, then why has he changed them in 1997, 2004, and 2011????
You don't have to be his agent. Kershner's thoughts on the SE's are documented. Marquand, well, he's dead so he has no say. But considering that Lucas directed a portion of the film, it's not totally Marquand's.
I said most details, but not all. Certain ones were in the back of his mind at the time, while others came up as he was working on the SE's. The ones that has remained largely unchanged since 1997, are the ones that he's the most satisfied with. The ones that keep getting tweaked, well, obviously not so much.
He didn't have McDiarmid come in 1996, just to do one day's work. He waited until 2003, on the last day of shooting ROTS, with Ian under contract and in makeup to make the change. The same with waiting to change Vader's lines when Jones came in to do the recording sessions for ROTS, to do the new dialogue for TESB. As well as Morrison for Boba in TESB.
Considering that he's dead, I don't think he gives a good *** damn.
The story is still the same. Nothing is changed by having some new special effects and audio effects in the film, as well as a deleted scene or two stuck back in.
Well this thread is pretty much on the derailment bandwagon as it stands
I'll say this. Mrs. K makes a wonderful chocolate cake. But I can throw a bunch of frosting, fudge, sugar, and other sweets on top of it seriously altering the flavor to an astonishing degree...but it's still a chocolate cake. Apply the metaphor to the SE vs OV- positive or negative. There you go...that's the argument.
Yeah, I'd say this thread has reached its end.