CT I have not watched the new Star Wars Blu-Rays.

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by UK Sullustian, Sep 17, 2012.

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  1. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    You mean you don't want to see Yoda and Luke playing flip tag through the swamp? [face_shame_on_you]
  2. tulwinn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2011
    I don't think I'm misusing it at all, he clearly doesn't think it should apply to him and I believe it should.

    Even if I agree, are you arguing all the nos that came and went, Han shooting first etc, were part of Lucas's original vision?
  3. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    That speech that he gave, along with the other directors, was mostly aimed at Ted Turner who was going around coloring old movies, which would air on Turner Networks. It was to prevent the studios and the networks from making changes to the films, that they didn't have the right to change. Lucas himself has been tweeking his films since at least 1979. Not everything that he changed was about his vision, but was based on later decisions that he felt that were warranted. The visual effects in ANH were the things that he wanted to change, along with having Jabba in it. Digital Yoda in TPM was mostly done as a preparation for ROTS, but since so many complained about puppet Yoda, that he decided to make it permanent.

    Whether or not it was part of his ideas in the first place, the fact is that he has the right to change his films. The same way that James Cameron had the right to update the effects on "Titanic", but choose not to, for the 3D release. He could have easily done it, but didn't. Spielberg had the right to change "E.T." and the right to say that he regretted doing it later on. That's their right. Not the right of the studio, or some private investor who had a wild hair up his ass about black and white films being a turn off to viewers.
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  4. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Thank you darth-sinister. That laid it out much more clearly than I could have.

    Funny thing though, I really liked the coloration of movies on TNT and TCM in the early 90s. Sergent York in color was epic! But I definitely see the point they were making.
  5. tulwinn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Thanks for the context, its genuinely interesting though IMO I feel it applies to Creators too. I personally don't see a problem with coloring (commercially Ted Turner may be right) as long as we don't lose the originals.

    Why didn't Ted Turner have the right btw, they are old movies, did he simply lease them or something?

    Ive never argued that Lucas doesn't have the right to make special editions etc, Ive just been surprised at the way he seems to be deliberately erasing the originals. They are a part of cinema history and I think he does the GL of the 70s a disservice, he made fantastic films; I think they deserve to preserved so people can see what amazed original cinema-goers when the blockbusters began.
  6. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    I totally agree with this. I see the coloration as merely a technological update. Its not like they CHOSE to make the films without color (like The Artist or Schindler's List), they just didn't have the technology to HAVE color. I see this as the same as the CGI edits to the backrounds and X-Wings in the ANH SE

    No, he bought the rights to the MGM library.
    He did have the right at the time, and that's what Lucas and others had an issue with. They made all those great speeches so that the law would be changed and a new owner won't have the right to change the creator's work.

    Well that's the argument isn't it? The whole thing about creator's vision. In Lucas' mind, the older versions are sub-par pieces of the films he wants out. THAT'S why he keeps blocking releases of the OOT (which is several different versions anyway). Basically, Lucas' films are in a eternal state of post-production until he dies.
    Last edited by Jarren_Lee-Saber, Sep 27, 2013
  7. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    what about our cultural history ? should that be disregarded just because George feels like tinkering again ? and again ?
  8. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
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    star 9
    Thanks for the context, its genuinely interesting though IMO I feel it applies to Creators too. I personally don't see a problem with coloring (commercially Ted Turner may be right) as long as we don't lose the originals.

    Why didn't Ted Turner have the right btw, they are old movies, did he simply lease them or something?[/quote]

    In 1986, Turner bought MGM/UA for $1.5 billion, but wound up selling portions of it back to Kirk Kerokian as he couldn't really afford it at the time. Turner kept all of the MGM film and television library from before the merger and part of United Artists. He also kept the WB library from before 1950 and handled the US and Canadian distribution of RKO pictures, which he then used to launch TNT, Cartoon Network and TCM, along with keeping TBS going with it's syndication of shows like "Gilligan's Island". Despite the protests, beginning in 1985 with "Yankee Doddle Dandy", Turner began coloring a number of the films that he had. But cost began to be a factor and the process was stopped almost ten years later. In the years since then, TCM has only shown the original black and white versions and sold them as well.


    The thing is that Lucas was never satisfied with ANH and in his view, with regards to creative ownership, he has felt that he would rather only has the most recent versions available over the ones from before his tampering. He's just never seen it through your eyes, the way that he sees it through his. Whether or not Disney and Fox will do something, remains to be seen.

    Those have been secured, I believe. The 35 mm prints are secured with the Library of Congress, in various degrees of condition. At least as of two years ago. I'm sure it's still the same today. But in terms of an official, mass market release, the 2006 DVD set is the closest you'll get right now. Anything else is unofficial.
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  9. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    Well it wasn't called ANH in 1977, so I really don't know what movie you're talking about it as it was simply called Star Wars then. ;)

    Well here is Lucas's reaction after a screening in 1977 of Star Wars:

    Paul Hirsch: During the sneak preview, the film started, the ship came over the top of the screen, and the audience went wild. So then we get to the moment in the end battle when Han knocks Darth Vader out, and the audience lets out a cheer....and the moment really worked for the audience. After the screening I said to George, "Anything you want to change?"

    George Lucas replied, "I think we'll leave it alone."

    Paul Hirsch: "So we never touched a frame."

    SOURCE: The Annontated Screenplay, page 117.

    ;)
    Last edited by Carbon1985, Sep 27, 2013
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  10. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    And afterwards, while interviewing with Rolling Stone magazine...

    Then you add in the fact that Lucas turned around and tinkered with the film, by cutting a few frames, dubbing over Fraser's voice and then adding "Episode IV: A New Hope" and you can tell that it was bothering him. He just wasn't going to worry about it in May of 77.
    Last edited by darth-sinister, Sep 28, 2013
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  11. Rowboatcop Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2011
    star 1
    All of those types of changes are really common, mundane occurrence during the days of a gradual rollout release, and very minor compared to other movies from the 60s and 70s.
  12. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Yes. Yes, it should! As the creator and artist, I believe he has both the right and the responsibility to continually improve (yes, I used that word, because I find them to be improvements, not merely changes) his OWN WORK. I highly approve of it, and I hope the selling to Disney will not prevent this from continuing.

    I've also said that, unlike Lucas, I actually enjoyed and like the colorization of the films. I also love extended editions of films.
    I am ALL for adding run-time, scenes, graphics improvements etc. I wish from my whole heart that every time a DVD or Blu-ray of a film is released with deleted scenes, that there was an option to play the film WITH those scenes included in the runtime.
    Last edited by Jarren_Lee-Saber, Sep 29, 2013
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  13. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4


    special editions , director's cuts etc. are fine , but our cultural history should never be disregarded , the originals should always be available .

    also it's not "his own work" , movies are collaborative , he didn't even direct 2 of them .

    .
  14. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    No one would care about the changes to the OT movies if the originals had been made available in the quality with each release like T2, Lord of the Rings, Blade runner, etc. I'm always interested in alternate versions of a great movie I have seen many times, but I still always want the original version to watch anytime too.
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  15. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    No, he just hired a couple largely unknown directors to do the hard work so he could focus on setting up LucasFilm and ILM
  16. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    so because Lucas hired them he can do whatver he wants ?

    just like Universal did on american Grafitti .
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    How many people really care? Honestly. How many people really care about this? The films are preserved in the appropriate places. Beyond that, there's no hard and fast rule that says an original theatrical cut has to be always made available.


    Kershner has said for years that he was a hired gun and Lucas filmed about thirty to forty percent of ROTJ. Mainly the action scenes and the duel.

    He consulted with Kershner on TESB, even though he didn't have to. He chose to and Kershner had no problem with the changes, did the commentary, was quoted in the Annotated Screenplays and did the "Empire Of Dreams" documentary. Marquand passed away several years later, so that prevented his involvement in the SE's.

    Seeing that he owned the rights to the films, yeah. Anything that would be done now would have to be given permission by Disney.
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  18. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    [face_laugh] You sound like a 5 year old. These are George's movies, get over yourself.
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  19. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4

    well obviously Lucas cares (when it suits him) hence his remark about our cultural heritage . And I care . and lots of others do too.
  20. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Lucas does care as a director, which is why he submitted each version to the archives. But I'm talking about when it comes to mass retail? I don't think nearly as many people as the internet would have you believe.
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  21. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Most casual fans don't even KNOW about the different versions! I've had bar arguments on PT vs OT, but if I ever bring up the different versions of the OT, I mostly get blank stares.
    A big restaurant/bar in my city was doing a showing of the entire Saga (one per week), and I asked them which version they were playing, and they had no idea what I meant. (they had the 2004 OT and 2008 PT sets), so I lent them my Blu-ray set. While it was playing I was talking to the owner and some clientele about the versions, and I mentions that the Jabba scene in ANH wasn't in the original, and they were all surprised. These were all people in their late 20s - 50s. Nobody knew, most didn't care. (the ones that did were just happy that they added new scenes)
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  22. topgoalscorer_no11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3

    So people who don't care about Star Wars don't care about changes to Star Wars. Hold the front page.

    I'm a huge fan of Lucas and a big defender of him in general, but the decision to try and erase the original versions from history is plain wrong.

    Even he must know it's wrong.

    In fact, when anyone brings up Lucas's name on the internet, you get a stream of bile. Which is tragic, as he's essentially a perfectly decent guy who's done some great things, but all this nonsense is of his own making.

    I think people would be a lot more forgiving of the prequels if he hadn't made such ham-fisted changes to the originals.
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  23. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    no, these are people who do care about Star Wars.
    I became a mega fanboy in 2006 - I had no knowledge of versions of the OT
    I joined this forum in 2008 - I had no knowledge of versions of the OT
    I stopped posting in 2010 - I had only vague knowledge of versions of the OT, didn't really care
    I became re-interestedin the forum in 2012 - I discovered the massive war about the versions.
  24. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    I wish you would be consistent, cause you are all over the place. Now you are asking us 'how many people care?' to make your argument. I don't know how many people care, I have friends who want the OOT more then anything, and friends who can live with the SE, but why does that matter? If we did a scientific poll, what is the % of people that should care that would make you change your opinion to being for a remastered OOT?

    I have been saying to my friends for years its a sillly argument, as if Lucas would have released the OOT and SE together, NOBODY would be mad. Its just natural when someone watches a certain version of a movie for 20 years, and then you change something things in it, that some will like the changes and some wont. How this so hard to understand from your side? I don't care if you like the SE, as I have no problem with Lucas changing the movies, and I could care less if 99% of the fans agree with me that the OOT should be released in its proper form. If it was released properly like EVERY great movie with more then one version, we wouldn't be debating this stupid argument back and forth.


    Good lord, please don't mention the internet to get validate your opinion. The internet is 1% of the SW fanbase, and I say that because I have loads of friends who are diehard SW fans like me, and NONE of them have ever posted on a SW board before. They love the movies just as much as me, but don't feel the need to talk about them everyday.

    There are so many fake accounts on social media these days, you will never know who is real and who is fake. I talked to many people off the record (OOT fans and Saga Fans) who have socks here, and they purposely do it to make it seem like their opinion is the majority. If you go by the opinion on the internet, then you are living in an alternative universe, because the internet brings out the crazies, (including myself)[face_laugh]
    Last edited by Carbon1985, Sep 30, 2013
  25. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    Cultural heritage means more than having it in an archive , it should be available to be seen by the public, otherwise whats the point ? I'm sure Lucas wants to watch the original 3 Stooges , not simply to be told that they're safely locked away somewhere (this is like the end of Raiders !)

    as for how many care - this is a SW forum and its most definitely always been one of the hottest topics .
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