Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by DarthTalgus, Feb 3, 2013.
Mix his DNA with the cloned Zillo beast to create the Zillo Maul!
Oh man. I can just picture that. Sounds like an episode of Swat Kats.
Palpatine will need a witness when he marries Mother Talzin.
Poor Peter Parker Obi-Wan Kenobi. No girlfriend. All alone.
One use down, many more to go.
I immediately thought of that scene with Bruce Willis and Marcellus Wallace in the basement from Pulp Fiction.
Sidious is standing over some unruly Senators, or maybe some Jedi, then he calls out "Bring in the gimp!"
That would be disturbing
Sidious is a sick man but he has urges like all of us.
With a robot butt you could probably install a few things in there.
Zed's dead baby..Zed's dead.
I'm thinking as a further distraction for the Jedi & Republic. Maybe having him still in some ways in control of the crime syndicates?
Being another pawn in Sids' game?
Or as a potential decoy in case the Jedi get close?
I really like this implication. Theoretically, the current Clone Wars is still limited to the Seperatists planets and those planets they attack or foment trouble on.
We've got 2,000 neutral systems.
And as far as the galaxy at large is concerned, there is now an obviously evil Sith Warlord in charge of a legendarily war-like planet.
No wonder Palpatine's chuckling evilly. He has a Jedi killing machine wildcard that he controls completely and can use for whatever he wants. And he's got the criminal underworld united in such a manner he can shape it to become the slave trading and resource abusing economic system that he will use to subjugate even more of the galaxy!
Maul would be wasted, both in universe but especially out of universe, if he was made into Venamis 2.0 or just sent after Talzin. He's now the biggest single antagonist whose fate we don't have written down in the saga, he's tied to a long overdue antagonistic Mandalorian faction we've implicitly been promised since the 70's, and he's a Khan-like personal adversary for Kenobi.
I say he's in charge of the Mandalorians opposed by the Republic and eventually goes down against Kenobi.
Why would Sidious go kick Maul's ass just to leave him in the exact same position?
Maybe that's what TCW will do, but it makes zero sense to me.
But he disavowed Maul from the Sith order and killed his apprentice. Maul's position cannot be the same, all his plans have been scuppered, he's now under the control of Sidious.
You're joking right?
Before Sid's visit, Maul considered himself Lord of the Sith, with his brother as apprentice. He planned to create a criminal empire and let his obsession with revenge against the Jedi and Kenobi dictate his actions.
Now, if Sid is going to leave him in power on Mandalore (which remains to be seen) it will be as Sid's puppet, following Sid's orders, working to Sid's agenda. If you can't see how that is a different position to the one he occupied before, there's no point continuing the discussion.
Indeed, there is no point in continuing the discussion, because you haven't pointed out any real changes to Maul's position.
Maul's "official Sith status" doesn't affect anything. Losing Savage is a change, but it doesn't really change Maul, his abilities or his situation. He's still Mandalore.
Sidious went to Mandalore just to kick Maul's ass and kill his apprentice, but that's it?
You say Maul would have to abandon his plans and follow Sidious' orders, but what would those orders be? Would they be any different from what he was going to do on Mandalore anyway? What will Sidious have him do on Mandalore, fight the Republic? Looks like that was going to happen even if Sidious never showed up. If you can think of something for Maul to do on Mandalore, please speak up.
What would force Maul to follow Sidious' orders once Sidious has left? Fear? No different than before Sidious showed up, except the ass kicking reminder. Still, there's nothing stopping Maul from doing what he wants other than that fear, Maul can bail as soon as Sidious leaves if he wants.
There is little difference between Maul staying on Mandalore before Sidious, and Maul staying on Mandalore after Sidious.
To show dominance of Maul. Before Maul was ruling Mandalore. Now, Sidious is ruling Mandalore with Maul as a proxy, and Maul fully understands that Sidious is perfectly capable of coming back and finishing the job if Maul steps out of line.
The move from "the exact same position" to "little difference" indicates some progress.
I get the impression you're joking when you say,
Once Maul is under Sidious's control, Sidious is Mandalore.
If you're saying Sith status has no intrinsic meaning or value, I must assume you're teasing me. Sith status is obviously important to Maul, and evidently of crucial importance to Sidious.
That's not even an argument. We don't know what Sid's plans are. Even assuming he's leaving Maul as his puppet on Mandalore, we still don't know what Sid's plans are. It's incredibly likely that Sid's plans would differ from Maul's, because they are different characters with different goals and motivations. Maul was making himself a problem for Sidious, do you seriously think Sidious's plan for Maul involves continuing the problem?
Fear is a good traditional Star Wars motivator, yes. You saw what Sidious did when he turned up on Mandalore. There's nowhere to hide from Sidious, he's the ultimate big bad.
Will Maul still plot and use whatever autonomy he has to fulfil his ambitions? Sure, he's a Sith in nature if not in name. Does he have the same position he had before? Clearly not. Can he act as he did before Sid turned up? Clearly not.
Exactly, Sidious now controls Mandalore through the proxy of Maul having beat him into submission. Maul may still try to use up and be killed at that time. To Almec it will appear as if another has changed. This also will continue the rivalry with Obi-wan which will get far more bitter.
lol i feel sorry for almec then... he's the puppet of another puppet. i wonder how emasculated he would feel if he knew the truth.
I figure the biggest difference is that Sidious has no intention of leaving Mandalore in any state of power, even as a place for Maul to build his Underworld. Now, Sidious has the ability to command Maul to burn his empire to the ground in the Clone War, and to do so in a way that will expand Sidious's power and kill as many Jedi and innocent people as possible. Maul doesn't have an empire anymore; he doesn't even have a fiefdom like Tyrannus does with the Seperatists, since he's no longer the Sith Apprentice.
He's Sidious's tool now, nothing more. Probably the only autonomy he might have is a bit of leeway in his vendetta with Kenobi, but even that's no longer in his corner. Maybe Palpatine will task Maul with killing his only competition for Anakin's ear, or maybe he'll tell him to cut down Ahsoka. Maul, and Mandalore, have been reduced from true wild cards to immenently expendable pawns in Palpatine's game.
To use TV Tropes parlance, he's gone from a Rogue Agent Big Bad Wanabe to the Brute, if he's lucky.
I had a response typed up, but godisawesome just stepped up with the idea for Sidious to command Maul to actually destroy his own empire, I didn't think of that. Thank you, that's what I was asking for.
My second favorite Sith and I hate Maul's return as much as I hated his death...
I have been asked for my thoughts on the eppy, but I would rather dive into the bigger pool right now. So here is my mild rant:
Have you ever heard of the tragedy of “Darth Maul, the Woefully Contrived”? I didn’t think so. It’s not a story that Lucasfilm would tell you. It’s a screen-writer’s legend. Darth Maul was a Banite-Sith so devoted to their evil cause that he needed to be killed before he was ever developed. He became so popular with spoiled fans that the maker changed the ending of TPM to ensure that we knew G.Walton had in fact, killed him off.
But Duel of the Fates was not Maul’s final demise. A writer with creative skills and a blank canvass revived him with no explanation then called it Infinities… some fans rejoiced but all of the rest, eye-rolled. Protests happened, polls were started and many a flame war ensued on the internetz. All the while, Dooku, Ventress and each of his other Dark Acolytes failed to become what Darth Maul already was… the ideal Banite Apprentice and a credible threat to the Jedi's beloved Republic. If the droid general could survive horrific injuries and scientific-mutilations without the force, what could a Sith Lord endure? Sure Darth Vader survived being burned alive, and losing half of each limb… but what about being cut in half? Maul was stronger than the droid general, more evil than Vader and with those thoughts, an abominable-spider was born…
But not before TCW tried to replace the Iridonian Zabrak with another blank canvass, his brother from Dathomir, Savage Opress. The only problem with that was TCW didn’t do anything significant with him. They all called him a Monster; much like Dooku once called Maul an animal and both labels were wholly inaccurate. Pre-magic Savage was as honorable and loyal, as Maul was intelligent and driven to destroy the Jedi… but because of poor planning, neither reached their full potential.
This is my take on how it could have been handled without Talzin, if Maul was never meant to be killed and escaped Naboo on his own or by accident.
Lotho Minor. I liked that Darth Maul was a raving lunatic, that he was consumed by his hatred of Obi Wan. After Savage tracks him to his lair, the talisman of finding should have settled Spider-Maul down a bit so that he was a mix of 80% madman and 20% brilliant teacher. Savage should try to rescue Maul, but have Maul refuse to leave because he knows that he is but a shadow of his former self, that he is little more than an animal at that point. And his old saber should be lost forever.
To move the story forward, Maul should covet his brother’s lightsaber, but be unable to take it from him… so he promises to teach Savage if his “brother” will find the things he needs to build his own weapon. As Maul works towards that end, he begins to put the pieces of his shattered mind back together, while Savage gets schooled up in passing on what it means to be a Sith Lord. The forging of synth crystals should be their bonding moment, where they fully embrace the “we are brothers, true Lords of the Sith” mentality. Over time, Savage locates all the components Maul will need to use the force and Mechu-deru some new metal legs for himself. With their combined strength, the Grim Twins tap the force and Maul bends the metal to his will and is reborn. They are now free to run around the galaxy until Sidious has had enough.
If Maul was meant to die, then Randy should have been tasked with taking revenge against the Sith. Not becoming another one of their throwaway pawns. No matter how I look at it, I keep coming back to the same thought: Maul and Randy were both wasted opportunities.
And there you have it -- well thought out -- hadn't thought of it that way.
I hope that TCW is going to touch on exactly how Maul did survive being cut in half and falling down a shaft, he clearly didn't get help from his master. It would be interesting in the "cheating death" thing that is talked about more in ROTS and ties in with Sidious' own master.
Not sure what will happen regarding Maul, but he will hopefully die before too long and restore the fate he already was supposed to have had in TPM.