"I have the high ground". What does Darth Maul think of that?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Froghurt, Oct 3, 2006.

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  1. Froghurt Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2006
    star 1
    I loved the PT. Every movie, every minute.
    I only have one nagging problem with RotS, that being the ridiculous line "I have the high ground" made by Obi Wan.
    Did lucas completely forget how he resolved the Obi Wan Darth Maul duel in Episode 1? What happened to the high ground rule there?
  2. DARTHLINK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 3
    How did Maul die? He was arrogant. He had Obi hanging for dear life in a chasm, his saber is gone, and Maul's probably wallowing in his own victory. He forgot that Qui-Gon's saber was still there. He was simply toying with Obi when he was shooting sparks down at him.

    Like Anakin. He was arrogant and too full into his power to notice. He thought that since he was more powerful, he could survive jumping over Obi-Wan. He must have forgotten that when someone has the high ground, they are at an advantage, because they don't have to fight upwards, they can fight downwards. Note that Anakin dove RIGHT in FRONT of Obi's saber! If he weren't blind to his power, he would have found another way of getting back on land and resuming the fight with Obi.

    Remeber, Obi went through this before with Maul, so he naturally must have realized what Anakin was about to do, hence his "Don't try it.", because then he would have to restort to what he did in the movie.

  3. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Being full of the darkside combined with stupidity is a bad mix. Maul got cocky and died as a result.
  4. DarthLegion012 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2006
    star 1
    Darth Maul lost because he was to convincing that he defeated Obi-Wan.He completely forgot Qui-Gons lightsaber, and Obi-Wan cought him by suprise.We all knew that Darth Maul was better swordsman than Obi-Wan.I think that in Episode 3 Obi-Wan expected, because of Anakins arogancy, that he would jump.Everyone knows that high ground is great advantage in mele battle and before he jumped, Anakin told Obi-Wan "Do not underestemate my powers", so Obi-Wan was prepared for Anakins jump and Darth Maul was not.
  5. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    Obi-Wan had the high ground, and knew the best way to counter it, so he was essentially saying to Anakin, "I have advantageous terrain, there's only one way to get above me, and you know that I know it, so don't try it."
  6. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    All Anakin had to do was walk up the bank, or jump to another spot instead of leaping over Obi. Silly boy.
  7. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    That bank may have been unstable and one footstep would've led Anakin to burst into flames which is exactly what happened after he is defeated.
  8. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Possibly, but i'm sure he'd keep moving if it was unstable, and I doubt he'd stay in that spot long enough to burst into flames.
  9. Knight-8311 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2006
    star 1
    Had Darth Maul been thinking clearly and not focusing on his revenge he would have felt obi-wan pulling qui-gons saber to him and would have counter it and may have killed obi-wan. But he didnt. The dark side blinded him. Obi-wan was thinking clearly and out of pity was warning anakin "You try it and i will kill you."
  10. Rossa83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    There must be a dark-side arrogance and blindness involved. If we look at Maul vs. OBW, Maul had the high-ground, but could not benefit from it. In OBW vs. Anakin, OBW had the high ground and benefited from it. In Yoda vs. Sideous, Sideous had the high-ground, but only slightly benefited from it - Sideous should have done what OBW did to Anakin, but didn't because of his arrogance. He was saved from not being as stupid as Maul was:p
  11. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6


    "I have the high ground". What does Darth Maul think of that?"



    Answer:

    "Damn continuity..."

    ***

    I hammered a similar point in a different thread not too long ago. What I referred to was Obi-Wan's first jump when Maul knocked him down two levels. (right before Qui-Gon sent him flying down a level himself)

    Never mind the Force-pullup from the pit that killed the (arrogant) idiot Maul...
    The leap that Kenobi made to rejoin the fight was five times as far as the one Anakin failed to cover in ROTS. The distances aren't even close. Maul got what he deserved because he didn't finish what he started. AnaVader never had a chance...




    "Damn continuity..."



    ***




    I guess being a Sith means you can't jump like a Jedi.8-}


  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Lucas has said that the weakness of the Sith is their anger and arrogance. Maul lost because he was too arrogant to think that Obi-wan could somehow turn this around. When he saw Obi-wan do just that, he was awestruck. He couldn't believe that Obi-wan had managed to do this. If Obi-wan had dealt with Dooku or Palpatine, he would've got cut down before he got all the way out of the pit. In Anakin's case, he didn't think that Obi-wan would or could touch him. Listen to their entire conversation here.


    Obi-wan: "It's over Anakin, I have the high ground."

    Anakin: "You underestimate my power!"

    Obi-wan: "Don't do it."

    It's not just about having the high ground in terms of being on a slope. It has everything to do with the fact that Obi-wan was in a position of advantage, if Anakin chose to jump over him. It was also Obi-wan's way of trying to end the fight, before someone seriously got hurt. Anakin, who felt that he was being held back and felt the dark side coursing through his body, tells Obi-wan that he's tired of his putting him down. Underestimating his abilities. That is why he chose to jump over him. He wanted to prove his superiority and got spanked for it. This is then relevant in ANH and ROTJ. First when Vader says that he was the learner, but now is the master. And second when he is doesn't jump up after Luke, when his son goes up to the catwalk. There he stands on the floor and flings his saber at Luke. Something he could've done on Mustafar.
  13. jedi_jacks Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2005
    star 4
    I was just thinking, does the high ground = moral superiority? Can you be wrong and still have the high ground?

    We see it with Vader / Obi-Wan and Yoda / Sidious.

    Is the high ground just having the advantage or having the legal right?

    With Darth Maul / Obi-Wan, that's the exception. Obi-Wan overcame a loss that seemed almost certain.
    I'd agree with that, but I also think Obi-Wan had, I know this sounds stupid, a pure heart. He got out of more tight situations then any other Jedi and it wasn't probably luck. It's like the will of the force was rewarding Obi-Wan.
  14. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    It could mean that, if you wish to see it that way. But I'm thinking its mostly to the advantage in battle.
  15. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6


    I can't accept the pure heart, line of thinking. Good intentions, yes.

    Purity of heart? I think not.

    Ultimately, Obi-wan twisted the truth about the past as he saw fit. If you steal a penny, or a million dollars... either way you are a thief. Tell a small lie, or a big whopper... you are still a liar.

    IMO, Kenobi's "partial truth", was closer to a "sin of omission" than a bold-faced lie... but it still wasn't the "whole-truth".

    But that's just my point of view.;)
  16. Rossa83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    If you are in the process of grief you do not want to impose another strain on that person. Luke was in that exact position in ANH. OBW knew that if he told Luke that Vader was his father he would seek his only family left. Twisting the truth, yes certainly, but imagine had he not!

    You steal a penny and you steal a million dollars - correct, but one of them will get you in prison and the other will not. What would piss you off? Someone stealing a penny from you, or someone stealing your entire life savings (hopefully more than a penny:p )?
  17. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Oh, I don't debate that Kenobi did the right thing, Rossa. And what a tuff spot to be in, to top it off!

    The word PURE is what got me. If Kenobi was pure of heart, then he would have trusted in the Force and told Luke the truth, regardless of the tragedy surrounding his family.

    A classic example of the end, justifying the means.

    You were wise to point out that one crime was not the same as the other, even though they are of the similar nature. Rightfully so, the penalty handed down for the crime, fit each of the respective acts of thievery.


    (but)
    The lighter sentence doesn't change or mitigate the transgression, both are still thieves... one just happens to steal in larger quantities than the other.[face_laugh]

  18. Rossa83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    I stand corrected. OBW was not pure at heart - but who is? My point is that the same experience that taught OBW that there was no such thing as luck also taught him to trust his insticts and his own judgement. And I agree that a thief is still a thief no matter how great a thief he was:D

    I suppose the question really is: can the end justify the means? In my opinion OBW was right to do what he did, and as you pointed out, he really was in a tight spot! Was OBW good? Yes. But pure of heart, nah - I think only infants really are, and I doubt all of them even are[face_laugh]
  19. jedi_jacks Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2005
    star 4
    There is such a thing as the noble lie, just to put it out there. I think telling Luke his father was Vader would have filled Luke with anger and insecurities, making him untrainable.

    I just can't explain Obi-Wan's victory over Maul and Grievous. It seems like fate.
  20. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Rossa, I like the way you write.

    I'd have to say Kenobi did the right thing, all for the greater good of the Galaxy.
  21. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    .....or he could have stood on that platform and floated down the lava river while Obi-Wan goes "Darn....so much for that idea"
  22. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    [face_laugh] BRILLIANT!!![face_laugh]
  23. Rossa83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    Thank you;)

    Good to hear that we agree also!
  24. JediRunner Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2005
    star 1
    Maul was a idiot and Obi Wan wasn't is how I see it.
  25. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    Obi-Wan was a huge idiot. I love the guy and all, but geeze, push the guy in the lava and just finish it!
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