I JUST HAD THIS THOUGHT ABOUT SIDUOUS/PALPATINE!!!

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by houstros5, Mar 4, 2002.

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  1. opinion Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    ...obi-wan senses darth vader...not "the dark side" in vader...
  2. Emperor_Dan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 1999
    star 4
    Obi-Wan and Darth Vader have an emotional bond...
  3. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    Yet Obi-Wan senses Vader and vice versa in ANH....


    He sensed a familiar presence, not a generic dark side using person.
  4. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    Okay then, say Paplatine is not a forceless clone of Siduous... You think that the jedi would since the presence of force in Palpatine and think "hey, this guy is no jedi, but what the hell...."

    I doubt it.
  5. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    There are few reasons why I say Palpatine and Sidious are the same.

    1. Sidious was on Coruscant. So was Palpatine. If they were both on Coruscant at the same time one of the Jedi would have felt one of them through the Force. That would be too much dark side power.

    2. Also Sidious admitted to that he had something to do with the Senate. Palpatine too had something to do with the Senate.

    3. Sidious is evil. Palpatine is a wonderful guy who shows his true colors sooner or later. He becomes the corrupt Emperor of the Empire.

    4. Although the offical site said that Sidious is taller than Palpatine, that doesn't hit the mark. He's only taller because of the hood. If he removed the hood then he would be the same height as Palpatine.

    5. Both Sidious and Palpatine wanted Amidala to sign the treaty to make the invasion on Naboo legal.

    6. The unassuming Palpatine we see in TPM becomes the Dark side master we see in the OT who is so pressed to corrupt Luke Skywalker over to the dark side.

  6. opinion Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    ...thats the thing...they cant sense anything in palpatine that would lead them to believe hes a bad guy...
  7. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    But here are the loop holes........

    1. Sidious was on Coruscant. So was Palpatine. If they were both on Coruscant at the same time one of the Jedi would have felt one of them through the Force. That would be too much dark side power.


    ---At best, the Jedi may have sensed the force, but not from Palpatine because I he could be a force-less clone (basically a puppet)




    2. Also Sidious admitted to that he had something to do with the Senate. Palpatine too had something to do with the Senate.

    ----Of course, if Siduous is controlling Palpatine, then what one does, the other does


    3. Sidious is evil. Palpatine is a wonderful guy who shows his true colors sooner or later. He becomes the corrupt Emperor of the Empire.

    ---Exactly, SIDUOUS is evil... Palpatine could be a clone. It wouldn't actually be Palpatine that becomes Emperor, rather it would be Siduous, who would take the Palpatine name after the clone "disappears"


    4. Although the offical site said that Sidious is taller than Palpatine, that doesn't hit the mark. He's only taller because of the hood. If he removed the hood then he would be the same height as Palpatine.

    -----Of course they would be the same if one was a clone

    5. Both Sidious and Palpatine wanted Amidala to sign the treaty to make the invasion on Naboo legal.


    ----- Again, if Siduous wants something done, he makes the clone Palpatine do it, therefore one would want what the other does


    6. The unassuming Palpatine we see in TPM becomes the Dark side master we see in the OT who is so pressed to corrupt Luke Skywalker over to the dark side.


    ---No, there is no hard fact to prove that. If the clone theory is correct, then Siduous is hell bent on controlling the universe, and destroying the Jedi. He is involved in Anakin's turn, and upon finding out about Luke and Leia, he wants to controll them too. You see the relationship between OT Palpatine and EPI Siduous here. Siduous controlls Palpatine in EpI rather than doing things himself. Palpatine (not the EPI clone) in the OT controlls Vader rather than doing things himself.
  8. Darthkarma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 4

    one more time...

    it's simple...

    Sidious and Palpatine are the SAME person!

    I'll bet they even wear the same underwear!
    (from Structure)
  9. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    Thank you, Darth Karma. Houstros5, If Palpatine or either Sidious was indeed a clone of the other, it would be a mute point. But with Sidious and Palpatine being the same man, it's makes StarWars more dramatic and realistic. How could Sidious know Queen Amidala was young and naive unless he knows her personally? aka Chancellor/Senator Palpatine.

    Darth Sidious: Dark Lord of the Sith

    Chancellor Palpatine: Politician. Rises to power as the Republic of the galaxy becomes rotten from within. The Old Republic will degenerate into the Empire under his rule. Is slowly decaying from use of the dark side(check out the cover of ISSUE 53 of the StarWars Insider). He's turning into that hideous, ugly man we see in ROTJ.

    Emperor Palpatine- Master of the Dark side. Ruler of the Empire. At this time he no longer needs his Sith name aka Darth Sidious. By this time he's reached the destiny in his political career that he's aimed at all along and that is to rule and oppress the galaxy as Palpatine.



    houstor5, I hope this spells it out for you, friend.


  10. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    Cripes, you know that is the weakest one yet!


    I'd sure like someone to prove they are the same person, other than the shallow "Rick McCallum and George Lucas said so" that some people keep posting.... What really gets me is those of you who believe that RM and GL are so godly richeous and that there is no way that they would ever lie to to fans of Star Wars. How can people be so thick headed as to think that those two are the reincarnations of Jesus and do no wrong. Its not that it really "IS" wrong for them to say "Palpatine and Siduous anre the same person," because after all the shallow points people try to use against my theory only go to prove that RM and GL have successfully convinced you of two two different people being one in the same!

    And why in the hell not? How could the clone theory be a major swerve in the story line if everyone already knows/believes it to be the case? Every last one of you blindly believing the crap those two say without considering the loginc of a different scenario only goes to HELP them in getting a suprise response from the viewer at the theatre.

    Just an example of dear old Rick McCallum's banter is that back in late 99/early 2000 he said EPII would be a much darker movie than EPI. move forward a few months and he starts spewing that it is a more romantic film. then he starts going back and forth with his inconsistancies on SW.com and in SW Insider, so now nobody know what in the hell really is going to be the feel of the movie, which is EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT- you to be suprised.

    Ironically, this is the same tactic that the Pro Wrestling industry has been using since storyline spoilers and info began leaking from there. They publicly tell the people that they know will "leak" a story wrong information because they know that grubby spoiler hounds will eat their words up until they too "know for a fact" what will happen, only to have the PW writers produce a different storyline on tv, thereby SWERVING and SUPRISING those little grubs referred to as marks that "knew for a fact" otherwise would happen because someone in a position like RM said so.

    Until anyone can put forth some real evidence against my theory other than "they just are the same" or "RM or GL said so" or "look at a pic of aged Palpatine on SW Insider..." don't even bother to post, because this has gone from rational discussion to pure fanboy RM and GL blind love babbling.....
  11. bleh19 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2001
    star 4
    "6. The unassuming Palpatine we see in TPM becomes the Dark side master we see in the OT who is so pressed to corrupt Luke Skywalker over to the dark side.


    ---No, there is no hard fact to prove that"

    Well, there is a boatload more evidence that leans towards them being the same person :eek: and there is absolutely ZERO evidence to support some far-out contrived clone theory that doesnt add anything to the story. In fact it cheapens Palpatine's genius.
  12. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    No, there is no real proof either way. they quick inference is that they are one in the same because "in the future" there is Emperor Palpatine, and in EPI we have a character called Palpatine, and also a character that looks and sounds like Palpatine, yet is called Siduous.

    Still there is NO PROOF to either side.


    You being bull headed about the same person theory is good because if they are clones, then you will be shocked, whereas my suprise will be cheapened by my earlier inference.

    My theory that they are clones is good if they are not really, because then my suprise will be good, whearas yours will be cheapened.

    I don't suggest right or wrong, rather I say look as the feasability of either one. I say that the same person theory is a very Lucas-esque cheap way out of what could be a cool twist.


  13. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    And it adds to the story too in that the Emperor, thrilled with the success of his Palpatine clone, decideds to use the technique to amass an army of Stormtroopers, who you CAN NOT DENY are all the same.....
  14. bleh19 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2001
    star 4
    How does having Sidious and Palpatine make the story better? Regardless of the fact that there isnt a single shred of evidence than even hints at them being 2 different people. How does it make the story better?
  15. bleh19 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2001
    star 4
    Its a dumb twist....flat out dumb. It takes everything out of Palpatines character.

    If he is clone, when does it end? Is Dooku going to have 2 clones and Anakin 3 clones and lets not forget OB-1. Gimme a break.

    There is no proof for your argument whatsoever. But there is plenty to support that they are the same person, from the movies and outside quotes from GL and RM.

    Im not saying you cant speculate all you want...but I 100% guarantee you, it isnt going to happen.
  16. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    There is no evidence of them being the same either! All you have to go from is the general assumption based on name similarities from the OT and related novels

    If you have never seen the OT and only saw EPI you wouln't be so stubborn about the two being the same. But again, this stubborness is what they want. Look at how secretive Lucas is about upcoming movie info and yet he quickly comes out and gives info that wipes out a story option? no way.

    Other than interviews which you can't believe because they always end up having wrong stuff in them, there is no proof against my theory.


    If there is undisputable proof, then by all means post it!
  17. rayrayjay Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 1
    I have to apologize for my friends comments, I have known him all his life, but he is wrong, it is ok that he is wrong. Let us not hate! I like many of you do remember this raging debate that took place pre-1999...It is dead, it has been put to sleep...not just by Ep1 but by Lucasfilm. Granted Lucasfilm lies...and unlike my Astros fan friend I will go the extra mile to say they lie OFTEN. However, this cannot be proven one way or another...it is a taken for granted assumption!-That is true...there are only three movies worth of SUGGESTIVE PROOF...Anyway it is moot..no arguing, let it go!
  18. PruneF8ce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2002
    star 4
    The only way to solve this is to wait and go "told ya so".

    Palpatine=sidious=emperor. Theres no point in arguing this methinks. Patience. Time will tell.
  19. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    If he is clone, when does it end? Is Dooku going to have 2 clones and Anakin 3 clones and lets not forget OB-1. Gimme a break


    small child bickering is dumb, you rlack of real argument is dumb, and to think that because 1 person uses a clone in a master plan then by all means everone else has clones as well is DUMB!

    Again, I challenge you to find unarguable evidence against my theory, because you will find none! There is no more proof of your theory than mine.
  20. bleh19 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2001
    star 4
    My lack of argument?

    good one...

    GL, god of all things canon, said they are the same person.
  21. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    "Again, I challenge you to find unarguable evidence against my theory, because you will find none! There is no more proof of your theory than mine."


    I've already proven your theory is very farfetched. And so has everyone else who has posted in this thread.

    Senator

    Chancellor

    Emperor

    It's elementry.


    I've even brought you the evidence that supports this fact. I've stated why Palpatine or Sidious being a clone of each other is bad story telling and very illogical. There is too much to support that they are 1 and the same man.

  22. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    no you didn't really, as there is reasonable argument for my theory under each of your 6 points


    Master makes servant

    Servant does bidding

    Master eliminates servant

    Master takes power

    THAT is elementary.....
  23. bleh19 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2001
    star 4
    Well, I'll take a Sith master who is the epitome of pure evil and can play everyone like a violin over a sith who got a hold of some technology and held some clone hostage.

    Why are you so set on Ep 2 or 3 on having some massive bombshell? Even tho this one sucks btw :D

    You dont have to send the audience thru hula hoops of logic to get drama.
  24. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    I quote the last sentence on the official site concerning Darth Sidious....



    And despite the death of his
    prized apprentice(Maul), none of the
    Jedi knew for sure of Sidious' existence,
    or of his true identity.


    The official site is saying that the Jedi know nothing of Darth Sidious's existence, or his true idenity as if they would certainly know who he really is once his indenity is revealed. Once again, this supports more evidence that Darth Sidious is Senator/Chancellor/Emperor Palpatine in disguise! It's saying he has an IDENTITY like Bruce Wayne being Batman, Clarke Kent being Superman, Diana Prince being WonderWoman, Peter Parker being Spiderman, etc.


    There is not anything that resembles close to what you're saying as being evident.
  25. Darth Angst Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2000
    star 2
    As far as RM or GL lying for the sake of throwing the fans a fantastic curve, no I don't think they even care enough about the fans to do that. It'd be nice if we get some cool shocks in AOTC though. Otherwise, what else is there? We know what Anakin becomes, we know who Sidious is and we know Obi Wan is the real father of Luke and Leia. :p
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