I JUST HAD THIS THOUGHT ABOUT SIDUOUS/PALPATINE!!!

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by houstros5, Mar 4, 2002.

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  1. LordIsurus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 3
    I dont believe that a Jedi can detect a persons allegiance...Sithly or not. Also, the Jedi take Force sensitive babes, at age 9 months or earlier. That doesn't mean that other people in the galaxy dont have the Force. It might be very possible that a lot of people do have the Force, but since they weren't taken to be trained before 9 months, the Jedi, as a rule, can not interfere with their lives. The reason they took Anakin is because he just had such an extraordinary amount of midichlorians, he actually, not even thinkingly, made a huge disturbance in the Force. You know this, because Qui-Gon felt it, on Tatooine. But so did Obi-Wan...even though they were((or at least Obi-Wan was)) clearly at a far distance from Mos Espa. <<Darth Maul only arrived later...Obi-Wan sensed the disturbance, Anakin, while on the ship!>>

    A disturbance suggests to me one thing. Something bad. A Jedi tunes him/herself to the Force, aligning with it. Not disturbing it. I have a suspicion that upon learning the "disturbance" in the Force was really this 9 year old boy, Qui-Gon had two options, but felt he had to choose one. The first option was to let the boy alone unguided and open to other influences. But knowing he is a "disturbance" and knowing how great his power already was and the potential he had, he had to choose the second option. To train the boy, and hopefully align him with the Force.
    The main reason he wants the boy aligned with the Jedi doesn't occur to him until, at the least, when he first fights Darth Maul. And especially after he thinks Maul is trained in the Sith arts. For then, it dawns on him that there may be more Sith who'd love to get their paws on a person who can wield such power. So, more correctly, maybe a Jedi can only sense a person with the Force if their Force is not aligned but more a disturbance like Anakins is/was. Then you'd assume they could feel Palatine/Sidious' presence at the funeral pyre. But the Sith must have different practices than the Jedi. Maybe one of the Sithly Arts is masquing their Force attributes...or aligning their Force attributes to go undetected. Thats probably why the Jedi naturally assume Palpatine is not a Sith...or, at least, if he has the Force, it's aligned to flow with the Force. Think of it as a huge patch of water which is flowing down a river. You'd be hard to pick it out...but if that patch of water, miraculously, was going upstream, you'd pick it out fairly easily, wouldn't you?

    So..Palp could be Sidious and the Jedi would not detact him, if he could align his Force with theirs. Hmm...we'll see.

    Isurus
  2. Disco_Dark_Jeedai Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2001
    star 4
    Just a thought. I watched ROTJ yesterday, now show me, from the movie and you can use ESB, that Chancellor Palpatine is really the Emperor. He is never named in ESB or ROTJ. So unless there is some revelation in EPIII tying Sidious and Palpatine together, then Palaptine becoming the Emperor and donning the Black robes, when seeing ESB and ROTJ you might think it is still Darth Sidous and they are calling him Emperor.
  3. thenink Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2002
    star 2
    I found three thing of interest. First, when Obi-wan and Qui-Gonn show up as on the Nemoidian ship, Nute gunray contacts Siduous and Siduous says something to the effect of "This is an unfortunate turn of events, we must move forward with the invasion." A few minutes later, Palpatine is saying that the Chancellors ambassadors should have arrived and cleared up the conflict. It appears that Palpatine knows about the Jedi but Siduous doesn't, point 1 for Siduous != Palpatine.

    Just to comment, I think the Nemodians and Sidious/Palpatine both new that they were to be visited by "ambassadors", but I think they were surprised to learn that the "ambassadors" were actually Jedi knights, and not politicians.

    All the evidence from TPM leads you to believe that Sidious and Palpatine are one and the same, that's why I believe OTHERWISE! It's the oldest trick in the book: lead the audience by the nose to believe one thing then, *WHAM!*, hit them on the head with another.
  4. rayrayjay Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 1
    Sorry Darth Jerm, I know he has always made it for the kids, he even said so himself, BUT are you blind...do you own a copy of SW...Old school trilogy showed death(human burning corpses) no one was farted on, no one stepped in poo. There was questionable language...and GOOD ACTING! Maybe it is for kids, but old school trilogy was for the big kids, I can handle that...but the 6 yearolds...come on! In concluding I hope ep 2 is awsome, the trailor looks like it will be! And Palp is not a clone!
  5. LordIsurus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 3
    rayrayray you have to remember that in 1977, kids who were 6 years old could handle such scenes and digest them. In 1999 and beyond, the 6 year olds...lets just say cant handle the same thing ;p hehe meanie, arent I? j/k folks!! :)

    Isurus
  6. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    Wow, go awaw a few weeks and we have a little war brewing here, so my onholy opinions are this:

    1)rayrayjay-You seem to be one of the few left who's argument is ignorant statements about Yoda and Christmas (previous post), now, I don't believe either are menntioned in the topic.

    2)Hurrah for those who "get it" like I have always said, there may not be fact to prove my theory, but there damn sure isn't fact to prove otherwise. This is the very thing that makes anticipation of movies so great, especially when part of a series. There are always possibilities, and a good story writer never eliminates possible twists and schemes until forced to.

    3)If I am going to attack one person on this board, for the moment that would be DarthScud, who's latest post is only a reconfigured retype of posts of pages 1 and two, bickering the very points that SHOULD be in place if this is indeed to be a major swerve in the storyline. Remember, in order to fool an audience you have to make them look one way then hit them from the other way.

    I am enjoying what I am reading so far, so I really have no specific things to say at this time, however, given the "rebirth" of this topic, I'm sure somebody will come along whose name is not "rayrayjay" and say something ignorant....
  7. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    Okay, well not that this is specific to my topic but it seems "rayrayjay" has this problem with his Star Wars obsession that he can't let go...

    To my guess, being that RayRayJay was not on this earth when the original Star Wars hit theatres, he has no clue about the actual fanbase. It seems as if he is offended that Starwars may have been made for kids since day one. Well RayRay, it isn't that difficult to explain...

    This is all estimation, so don't quote my #'s...

    Back when Star Wars came out, I would guess that 90% of the people who saw it were under the age of 25, and that about 60% were under the age of 16--children, and the youngest was probably 5 or 6 years old..

    25 year later those same fans are 30-55 years old-- adults, their CHILDREN would have gotten into star wars by way of their parents who had loved Star Wars since they were CHILDREN. In the case op those pushing 50, they may have grandCHILDREN who like Star Wars because their parents liked it since they were CHILDREN....

    My guess is that of those original fans, now 30-55, 25% of them saw EPI, and because it was obviously for children, about 10% will see EPII. Those people are content with the OT they grew up with, and need no pre-trilogy.

    However our Generation of SW fans does. Those of us who are 5-25 now, and CHILDREN of the original SW fans, are as obsessed with SW as the generation before was as CHILDREN. Given the Availability of new SW, us greedy little thugs will take every bit we can get. That first generation of Star Wars CHILDREN didn't have that luxury.

    And since RayRay has un several occaisions used useless banter to gripe at my point (he's a superfanboy who will accept no other way), let me interject two titles from the tail of the OT that summerizes the CHILDREN audience-- STAR WARS: EWOK ADVENTURES, STAR WARS: DROIDS

    But anyway, I have delt with the child target audience, and since I like Star Wars, I DO NOT CARE.
  8. rayrayjay Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 1
    What do you mean by child? Do you mean 10 to 14 year olds fine, no problem. Actually, that is abit irritating, but I can handle it! 3-6 yearolds, no meesa no thinkso, exqueeze me...Yes that is a quote. A friend of mine put it like this, I like a good fart joke, Dumb and Dumber, Porkys, and American Pie...ha ha ha. But what would you do if William Wallace farted in Brave Heart, or if the God Father stepped in pooh...Lets just say it would not win any awards, but there you go, neither did ep 1. The best argument to your clone theory is the toy...I had almost forgotten about that, I still say that houstros is a clone, along with Yoda and Obi-Wan, maybe even me. And I still want to live on Coruscant, it is Christmas every day, think of the presents!
  9. Disco_Dark_Jeedai Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2001
    star 4
    Actually.....TPM was targeted for "todays" kids. No need to target those who saw the OT on the big screen, GL already has us his clutches. Jar Jar was added to get younger kids interested in SW to create a larger fan base plain and simple.
  10. thenink Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2002
    star 2
    Probably in 1977, fart jokes on screen were considered a "no-no", but today, HELL! ANYTHING GOES!!!

    Lucas himself has said that Jar jar is the first "comic character" in the SW saga, and there has never been anything like him. It just seems right for Jar Jar to get farted on; his character suits it!

    And besides, who does not appreciate a good fart?! I cracked one the other day and I almost laughed my face off! :D
  11. opinion Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    ...you guys say there is no proof but george lucas has flat out told us they they are one and the same...

    ...you say it could be misdirection...when you want to trick an audience...you dont lie...you simply give a vague answer...

    ...picture this...2005..."hey george you've told us that they are the same person"..."yeah i lied because i wanted to mislead the fans"...come on be realistic...

  12. Disco_Dark_Jeedai Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2001
    star 4
    I guess this is all a "certain point of view" thing.


  13. rayrayjay Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 1
    No way NICK, your argument just dosen't hold water, I made my comment on the type of movie, I made no such reference to the time periods. Blazing Saddles was made in that Time period, and it had one of the best fart scenes in movie history! However, did you see a Fart scene in Pearl Harbor, or perhaps, Ali, or any of the classic films of...(our fart accessable time period) NO. This goes to prove my point even stronger, that Lucas has changed our genre!
    I hope like all of you, that GL will give us our much awaited return to OST, or old school trilogy. But if you cant see the contrast between OST and ep 1. Then maybe this argument really is pointless...may I go on to say I like ep 1, the music is my fav of the episodes, and the special effects are GREAT. But it is a joke, any film buff will tell you Happy Gilmore is crap, but I like it, it's a good joke...but a joke none the less! Again when I have been to the promise land of Eps 4-6...all 10s...a 6 just dosen't cut it!
  14. rayrayjay Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 1
    Also No I do not feel like Houstros is telling me how it is...I know houstros, He can talk all he wants, he will still lose at HALO. See you in Indy...and Palp is not a clone!
  15. thenink Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2002
    star 2
    Rayrayjay, you seem to be too hung up on the "fart" scene in TPM! How long did it last, maybe 30 seconds! It didn't carry on through the rest of the movie; Qui-go and Obi-wan weren't rippin' em out: it was a small piece of the film!!!

    I can see the contrast between TPM and the OT but keep this in mind: TPM is supposed to give the SW universe a different "feel", "before the dark times". There was no farting in the OT probably because they were all oppressed! ;)

    ...and Palpy *COULD* be a clone! :D
  16. rayrayjay Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 1
    Well atleast you see the contrast. Ep 2 needs to be better, and if Palp is a clone, then I will hand it to GL, it was a great secret. The real question...is how kiddy will ep 2 be...Will Han be allowed to shoot first in Ep 2 so to speak? And you have to want some better dialogue, even the most die hard of the die hard ep 1 fans admit the dialogue was a bit dry...a film teacher I have (non SW fan) said just today, it may have the dryest dialogue of any movie in the last 30 years. Ok, I went off on a tangent. I'm just interested to hear what you think about that Nick.
  17. thenink Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2002
    star 2
    I agree to a point; the dialogue, I hope, will be better in AOTC than TPM. I wrote in a post somewhere elese that part of that problem is Lucas is good at writing stories but bad at writing scripts.

    I wouldn't call it dry though; just not very "deep". ESB had some pretty deep dialogue and it would be great if AOTC could replicate that.

    On an aside, why *did* they ever make Greedo shoot first in ANH-SE. I never could understand that; it looks so "hokey"!

    :D :D :D
  18. rayrayjay Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 1
    I hate to beat a dead horse but he did it for the kids. What would our children think if our good guy shot a poor alien under the table. I know I sound evil, but there is no other reasonable explanation-I WILL NOT accept well we couldn't really see what was going on so they cleaned it up...With that we should stop, I think Houstros wants to stick to the Palpatine thing!
    Heres to the almighty Lucas curveball-may it not suck!
  19. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    There was a time when Star Wars was about one thing- Star Wars. In this time past, Lucasfilm, and everyone associated with it for that matter, was very tight lipped about inside info. This was a time where one small slip of info meant job losses and/or lawsuits. This time ended officially with the release of EPI. GL and his goons have spewed so much crap over the last three years, that if you were a real nerd who went back to the first peep about EPII and remembered ever commect since, you would find a load of contradictions and loopholes and lies. For those who cannot remember, in the last year alone, According to head goon Rick McCallum, EPII was in no particular order a "Love Story", "Darker than ESB" , "not a love story" , "about the same tone as EPI, with a slight hint of the darkness to come", and Finally "a Love story with a bit of darkness."

    Only release day will tell which is true. As for George Lucas, he NEVER said "SIDUOUS IS PALPATINE" or "PALPATINE IS SIDUOUS"

    In actuality, what he DID say is "Iam McDiarmond (sp?) will be assuming both on screen roles"

    So I again, like the broken record, call for PROOF that the two CHARACTERS are the same. There is no logic whatsoever in making the judgement that the CHARACTERS are the same because the same actor plays both.

    I however feel like this answer may not even come until EPIII. But it could happen in EPII. What if Dooku kills Palpatine? That could be an explanation to the Insider's little casting spoiler, and still fit the "rule of two" hmmm....

    I'll have to think about that one some more....
  20. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    Okay, Dooku killing Palpatine is a bit out there, as i can't logically assemble that with what I have seen and read thus far...

    but still, if something like that DID happen, it WOULD leave Siduous alive...

    A stupid scenario for complete my theory, but no worse than the "They are the same becasue they are" or "George Lucas said so" excuses...
  21. opinion Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    ...but they are the same...and you know it... :confused:
  22. houstros5 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    There's an old saying, that "opinions are like..."

    Anyway, "Opinion" you seem to fit that one, because you have joined this topic about 90 posts too late not have any backup to your ramblings.


    BTW: Palpatine is a clone of Siduous, and you know it.
  23. Darth-Mouth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 1999
    star 4
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