ST "I know what I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do it."

Was Kylo Ren talking about killing Han when he said this? Was that his original intent, or was he honestly about to go home to his family but then changed his mind? There was definitely conflict there either way.

 

Yeah. His conflict is with the light side not the dark. He was basically wondering if he was too "weak" to kill his old man.

 

I've been contemplating that since I saw that scene myself last night

I said this in another thread, but my favourite aspect about Ben is that he's sort of in the reverse struggle as his grandfather in that he's actively trying to resist the call of the light side.
I think it's that he knows what's right deep down, but his insecurity and possible inferiority complex that could be there make him lust for power, and so he looks to his grandfather, knowing he was one of the most powerful dark siders of all time.
However, he doesn't know the truth about his grandfather's redemption, too. Reason maybe for Anakin's ghost in Episode VIII or IX?

 

yeah i think audience was supposed to think kylo was talking about rejoining han and lea--really, he was talking about having what he thought to be the "strength" to kill his han and resist the temptation of the light. very interesting reversal of luke's story. the thanks he gave to han was for allowing him to sorta shed the remaining "light."

 

I knew it was intended as a misdirect, but, spoiled, I knew what was coming and so understood what he really meant.

 

Perhaps it was both?

The few seconds he keeps his saber gripped so Han can't take it - I think he's definitely hesitating. I dunno, perhaps it was meant to be a somewhat drawn out "Oh crap" moment, but I read it as him struggling

 

It was definitely about whether he had the strength to kill Han or not. Snoke says to him earlier, "Even you, have never faced such a test", referring to killing his own father.

 

Both. Kylo was a conflicted character.

 

That's another line I'm not sure about. I can see how he could have meant Han, but couldn't he have also been talking about facing Rey? I think the title of the movie is referring to her.

 

Regardless if he meant he knew he had to kill his father, but knew it was wrong, OR he knew he should go home with his father but knew that it would be too hard to walk away from the dark side... It was essentially the same struggle. He was considering both and he made the selfish choice.

 

I never thought about it referring to killing Han, but I like the idea. At the time I thought he meant turning AWAY from the dark side. Going in unspoiled I thought he was actually turning right there, until he wouldn't let go of the lightsaber.

 

I interpereted it differently. I thought he was talking about killing Han.

 

It's a wonderfully weird moment. He's confiding in his father - he's confiding his weakness (or his fear of weakness) so it's an honest moment. But at the same time, the weakness he's talking about is that he doesn't know if he can kill his own father. He's confessing that to his own dad! Which is messed up enough (and not unheard of in drama) but the real inversion is that Han thinks his son is confiding in him for the exact opposite reason.

The tragedy of Han is that he wants to help... and does... but not in the way he thought. And then he forgives before he passes.

 

I wasn't spoiled to the line/scene, but it was pretty clear to me that it was intended as a double-meaning to fool the audience. (Kylo was referring to having the strength to kill Han, while Han and the audience thought he was referring to having the strength to return to the light.)

Also see Kylo's dialogue in the nighttime village scene before he kills the old man. There's some word play in there as well (referring to his family).

 

I think Kylo was conflicted, but made up his mind when the light from the star went out. That makes sense to me as a metaphor for him extinguishing the light within him to muster the willpower to kill Han.

 

I agree. I would love to see Anakin's Force Ghost confront Kylo in Episode VIII or IX. It would make sense.

 

Well this Trilogy is giving us both the Luke and the Anakin characters at the same time. Each heading in opposite directions. The Awakening is happening to both Light and Dark.

 

Why wouldn't he? He trained with Luke and Leia is his Mom -- I think he'd be aware for sure.

Interestingly - if I might use a real life example [and with NO intention of placing any value proposition on it]
Malcolm X returned from Mecca with a whole new outlook on race relations and much less hard line.
But many have no idea about that and/or choose to ignore it. At least that was the case when I was younger.

Back to the GFFA - "The Dark Side clouds everything"

 

Snoke tells Kylo "there has been an awakening" after Rey makes contact with the force for the first time. Then she beats Kylo after no training whatsoever.

 

Considering he's asking for guidance with the dark side from Anakin, it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't know the full story. Perhaps Leia felt it would be too dangerous to tell him that his grandfather fell to the dark side and became this horrible person, even if he did redeem himself at the end. It's likely he just found out on his own from history records or something about Vader - naturally, such records would not know about the redemption

 

I hear ya -- it's just so hard to believe you'd perpetuate the lie. Especially if Kylo is even beginning down the dark path -- how can you not point out that Anakin redeemed himself?

Kylo might call BS - but he'd have been exposed to it the truth at least

 

I agree. And personally I think he did decide to go to the light, Han had largely convinced him; but then when he saw the sunlight drained, it meant the Resistance would surely be annihilated in seconds, and the First Order victorious. So Kylo had no choice but revert to the dark path. Then his grip on the saber suddenly tightened, and he killed Han, as the thing he had to do for that path.
I think when he was shouting at Finn etc, 'traitor', he's trying to convince himself he made the right decision, and in VIII he will get even more evil, as he 'doubles down' on this path, for the time being at least.

 

The training thing. The thats a fight for another thread. I think there are hints she has more than it appears on the surface. Things to be revealed.

 

The novelization apparently states that Leia could sense a certain darkness in him from the day he was born - it's possible she didn't mention a thing about his grandfather, and she'd have told Luke to be cautious about it when training him. In which case Snoke would probably be the one to tell him

 

You'd think by now people would get that if a Force Sensitive person has a bad feeling about someone... serious bad news in the future.