I like JW, but he is starting to confuse his works!

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Yuuzhanvong1000, Nov 22, 2002.

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  1. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    My point is if you LIKE it, then say it is for YOU. People give you funny looks that's THEIR problem, man. No one should judge you for what you do and don't like. It's them that are not cool, not you.

  2. jamesdrax Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 6
    No body gives me funny looks when I buy Harry Potter stuff or even score soundtracks in general.

    Maybe because I'm too good looking.

    ;)
  3. batvader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2002
    star 3
    hehe, another Burton guy.
  4. jamesdrax Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 6
    Correction, an Elfman guy.

    ;)
  5. batvader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2002
    star 3
    still, some of the best works of The Man are for Burton films, like your icon :)
  6. TenorAprentice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    mmm...elfman....

    did anyone else notice that the edward scissorhands theme was in 5 different commercials this christmas?
  7. batvader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2002
    star 3
    I've seen just one with Christina Ricci. It's the definite dark christmas music.
  8. TenorAprentice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    was that the perfume one with the dogs? I was wondering if that was her...

    I thought that the irony of that commercial great: a perfume that appeals to dogs, especially when you think about what dogs like to sniff...
  9. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    Elfman!

    Everybody comes in here and complains about JW sounding all the same....

    pfff!!!

    When I listened to Edward/Scissorhands I expected Batman to come into my room and after I saw Spiderman at the theater I actually whistled and hummed the Batman Theme. For me, Elfman always sounds like Batman. Okay, maybe not really in MIB, but close enough. It's just Batman for me. Even the Simpsons Theme is Batman for me now!

    I don't even own Batman
  10. TenorAprentice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    Ha! [face_laugh]

    you sound like the Joker!!!

    a la batman, batman, that's all I hear...

    personally, I like elfman's "thumbprint" and don't complain when I hear williams' thumbprint either...
  11. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    now I want thumbprints of Goldsmith, Goldenthal, Newton Howard, etc.

    but not Horner - his thumbprint is, that he uses a theme 40.000 times in one movie :p
    (or did Titanic actually have anything that sounded differently? :eek:)
  12. batvader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2002
    star 3
    Edward Scissorhands sounds like Batman? Maybe you mean Batman Returns, which was after Eddie (and inspired by it). And many people complained because Batman 2 didn't sound like Batman 1, and you say they are the same?

    Anyways, some composers have a signature style, and Elfman has his own, and he's great in that.

    Williams in fantasy/adventure mode is also generic (but still great). A few fanfares for the heroes, a few marches or spooky themes for the villains, a few tender love themes and cute ''family'' themes if he's working for kid films (e.g. Hook or HP)

    Shore is a pretty inventive guy of the modern composers. LOTR could be a clone of Williams, but was very restrained.

    If we were listening only to very innovative works, we wouldn't have more than 20 soundtrack albums.
  13. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    but not Horner - his thumbprint is, that he uses a theme 40.000 times in one movie (or did Titanic actually have anything that sounded differently?

    Actually Titanic had like 4 main themes... just because the love theme was overplayed outside the film does not make it's use inside the film inappropriate. While Titanic is not Horner's best score ever, as some would claim, it is still quite good. Though he needs to ditch the synth choir and get a real one.

    As for Elfman, I love his work too. He does have a distinct sound, yet some of his works are enjoyable as well. Spiderman I was very disappointed in. The reason you hummed Batman, TLJ, is because there WERE no melodies in the Spiderman score to hum. It's terribly bland and boring, as was Planet of the Apes. Elfman needs to go back to better days...

  14. TenorAprentice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    one fun thing about spider man...during the scene in the hospital where peter and MJ are talking about how he "knows spiderman," you hear a musical line that is loosely based upon the williams superman love theme (just the ascending line of it). I love it...like a musical nod to williams.
  15. jamesdrax Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 6
    Spider-Man? Themeless? Sounds like Batman? I don't think you were listening properly. I can understand if the score doesn't meet with your particular taste but to claim that themes and motifs aren't present is a contradiction.

    It's amazing, I mention the word "Elfman" and the whole thread shifts from it's original topic.

    :p
  16. batvader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2002
    star 3
    Some say Spider-Man is ''Batman of the Apes'', a cross between POTA's subtlety and Batman's simplicity. And both of them (POTA and Spider) have themes, the point is that they are not simple and stand-out like the 5-note Batman motif, POTA, for example, has many percussion based motifs, and Spider-Man has his own ascending/decsending motif (sorry for the mispelling).
  17. TenorAprentice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    nice read! I have always thought that the rhythmic connections are used more frequently than the melodic connections. He has been doing that more and more (I think he started around Nightmare, but it may have been earlier) where instead of keeping the basic melody and changing the feelings and moods of it, he keeps the percussive accents and trades it with melodies. Sort of a reversal on traditional leitmotif work.

    and yeah, we drifted

    and drax, drax bemoans the fact that he is adrift upon a ship of fools - Nadesico
  18. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    I thought the score for CMIYC was a refreshing change from the A.I-Minority Report-Harry Potter2-AOTC scores which, to me, sounded alike.
  19. TenorAprentice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    I agree with the nice change of pace. It is neat seeing JW branching out again...

    but that movie itself was a nice change of pace...after all, most of SS movies have been rather dark, and it has been awhile since he did something a little lighter.
  20. caliman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2000
    star 1
    I really liked Catch Me if you can's score. My favorite part was in the title theme. There is a section that sounds like a darker, slower "across the stars" part. Cool beans.
  21. caliman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2000
    star 1
    And another thing. Over 70 years old and John Williams is still the most refreshing composer out there. Refreshing meaning least amount of repitition, and quality of score.

    Here's some others (from my listening experience):

    Jerry Goldsmith -(1 out 4) of his scores are listenable or at least new sounding now adays. (Back in the day, his only rival was Williams).

    James Horner -(1 out 3) are good, but 3 out of 3 sound the same.

    John Williams - (3 out of 4) and could easily be 4 out of 4. Back in the late 70s and 80s, everything he did was great. The 90s have been so-so for him (but outstanding compared to everyone else).

    I'm not sure how much time we still have with new John Williams scores because he's getting up there. But my recommendation, enjoy them, because we will never see anybody as good as him again.
  22. TenorAprentice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    The 90s have been so-so for him

    this sounds as though it is still ongoing?
  23. caliman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2000
    star 1
    oh crap. I'm in a new millenium. I should have said from the 90's on, it has been so-so for him. Still over 75% of that has been outstanding, and the other 25% has been very good.
  24. TenorAprentice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    :D

    you're funny! but, I can relate. I still catch myself saying, "hello, welcome to the nineties..." as a sarcastic jab...

    anywho, I do like the non-film work that JW did during the nineties... It seems that more of his energy was spent on that than on film... however, I would say that I think more than 25% has been outstanding. I would wager closer to 50% or 60%.
  25. batvader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2002
    star 3
    What do you mean by SS movies? I suppose the only SS film he scored was Shindler's List (oh, and two Indys had SS in them).
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