I like JW, but he is starting to confuse his works!

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Yuuzhanvong1000, Nov 22, 2002.

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  1. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    John Williams scored (almost?) every movie by Steven Spielberg :)


    but you're right, he didn't score many films about the SchutzStaffel ;)
  2. batvader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2002
    star 3
    I suppose Steven Spielberg doesn't like using initials for his name.
  3. TenorAprentice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    well, by SS, I mean:

    Catch Me
    Minority Report
    Jurassic Park
    AI
    Saving Private Ryan
    Amistad
    Jaws I
    All the Indy movies
    Close Encounters
    Schindler's List
    Amazing Stories
    Hook
    Always
    Empire of the Sun
    Goonies (SS wrote it)
    E.T.
    1941
    Sugar Land Express
    The Unfinished Journey

    In fact, the only ones he hasn't score that SS directed were:

    The Color Purple
    the skit for Twilight Zone:the movie
    Poltergeist (uncredited)
    and some TV stuff and solo project from the 60's, all before sugarland express, his first full movie where he had a budget for a composer. Of these other 3, 2 he didn't have control over the composer, and the color purple was all songs...



    phew!
  4. caliman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2000
    star 1
    What about Duel? IT's an SS, but did JW score that?
  5. TenorAprentice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    true, but that was one of the TV ones I was talking about... I think that the composer for that was Billy Goldenberg, who did some of the Amazing Stories shows as well.

    and, lets not forget 18 again!
  6. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I thought the score for CMIYC was a refreshing change from the A.I-Minority Report-Harry Potter2-AOTC scores which, to me, sounded alike.

    WHAT????!??!?!??!!??

    Are you insane???

    A.I. sounds NOTHING LIKE any of those! I can roll with a little of AOTC sounding like HP2 but even Minority Report sounds different. A.I. doesn't even really sound like Williams, save for a few places. It's possibly his most amazing and original score since Schindler's list. It's a big time departure.

  7. george_starwars Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2002
    star 4
    OMG! Other people have noticed this awful rip-off too! I thought I was the only one. As I was listening and watching in the theatre,(I always do both in movies with JW scores) it just lept out at me! I thought, "Woooaa! That's straight out of Star Wars. What's up with that?" (Most likly it's not JWs fault. My guess is they pulled a geonoses battle scene on him.)
  8. caliman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2000
    star 1
    I agree. A.I. Sounds nothing like any of his recent stuff. One exception is maybe a few dark cues were around again in Minority Report. CMIYC also stands away from his usual style.
  9. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Yeah I have heard that CMIYC is a total throwback to the early 70s or even the 60s stuff that Williams did...

  10. waheennay Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2000
    star 4
    JW's music in CATCH ME IF YOU CAN is definitely different than his other stuff. Although the part during the opening credits where it gets a little serious with the strings sounds like the middle section of the AOTC love thing where it gets heavy. Does anybody else think so?
  11. JediMasterLuminara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 1
    I agree with you. There's a scene in Minority Report as well where Tom Cruise is jumping from car to car, and the music from there sounds a lot like the chase on Coruscant from Ep2. I guess that's what happens when you do three movies at about the same time :)
  12. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Again, it's simply a similar feel desired by the same composer who has a distinct style. The same could be said about ESB and E.T. as those scores both sound amazingly alike at times...

  13. Na Wibo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2000
    star 3
    As do ESB and Raiders, in my opinion.
  14. Ternian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2000
    star 4
    CMIYC opening used the AotC middle section.

    That sucked. It was a blatant rip-off and rather annoying.
  15. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    What AOTC middle section?

  16. Ternian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2000
    star 4
    Vague was I. :)

    The middle section of Across the Stars is clearly copied in the opening cartoon of Catch Me If You Can.
  17. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    I thought CMIYC sounded a bit like Minority Report in some parts. But in one scene (I think where Tom Hanks goes upstairs in Martin Sheen's house) it sounded like the 'darker' part of AtS.

    Very vague, yes, but I saw it only one time.
  18. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I'll keep my eyes ... err.... ears open for that ternian. :)

  19. obiwankepaulie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    I happened to notice that a music cue during the Quidditch match in HARRY POTTER AND THE CHAMBER OF SECRETS, sounds dangerously close to a cue used in "Zam the Assassin" from ATTACK OF THE CLONES. It's particularly obvious once Malfoy and Potter start chasing the "snitch."

    I know John Williams has a tendency to borrow from himself liberally, but borrowing from himself THIS much really surprised me.

    I am not saying I am disturbed, disgusted, or even bothered by it. All I am saying is that I noticed it.

    HARRY POTTER is a 161 minute film. 3/4 of it is filled with music. Why pick out one minute worth of music that sounds like a STAR WARS cue if I didn't notice something significant?

    Borrowing from oneself does not indicate theft or plagiarism. Williams can do whatever he wants with his music.

    This is not just a case where music simply "sounds similar." This is clearly an un-unsed version of a cue from ATTACK OF THE CLONES. It's not a slam on the POTTER scores at all. I enjoy them and have both CDs.

    Paul
  20. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Actually I watched HP2 today and paid special attention to that scene. While the sound is very similar, it is NOT an unused take from AOTC. It's merely similar score from the same composer in the same period for a similar type scene. The melody is not at all the same, just the overall feel.

    And let's remember that John Williams did not really score all of HP2. He composed about 40 minutes of new music and the rest was arranged and all of it was conducted by William Ross.

  21. obiwankepaulie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    >> The melody is not at all the same, just the overall feel.<<

    To be absolutely clear, I am not saying the entire Quidditch sequence has the same music.

    I am saying, for somewhere between thirty seconds and a minute of that "trench race" (beginning when Malfoy and Potter pass Colin Creevey atop the trench with his camera) the melody is *unquestionably* the same as cues in the 'Zam' chase, albeit with a slightly different orchestral embellishment.

    I can accept that the scores were created in the same period, and that perhaps it is going too far to say it is an unused cue because I don't truly know that.

    However, the fact that this particular cue actually took me OUT of the HARRY POTTER film when I noticed it is all I need to know that I am hearing *something* beyond a mere 'feel.' Music is my business. I am very keyed into it. I wouldn't be commenting on it if I did not think this was a valid observation.

    I can tell that the opposition's opinion will remain rigid, but at least a few other people around have noticed it too. So, I will recognize I am not alone and leave it at that from here.
  22. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I've had that "took me out of the film" experience before. This cue does not bother me but others in other films have. In time you don't really notice it and just end up enjoying the scene.

  23. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Ok I have both the Scorcerer's Stone and AOTC sound tracks. I have listened to both of them 100s of times. And they do not sound a like. But I have to agree, I watched COS last night and I did notice that the Quitich scene with Malfoy and Potter chancing each other the music there does sound similar to ATOC speeder chance. But I am not complaining. I thought it as cool. You all know JW did not conduct COS. He wrote it and it was someone else who conducted it. With all his scores, if you listen to them as much as I did. You will always here a little bit of another movie. For example. E.T., the last track on the one where ther are only 8 tracks, durng that score at one point you can here the Jaws themes. in Jurassic Park I beleive you can her E.T. in that. So I think he throws and little reference to other movies he has done. Not sure that is fact. just something I picked up. I most of his soundtracks and listened to them alot. I do not think he is confused. Think he is a genius. He is able to after all these years able to come up with the most unique scores and give that movie its own theme. And give that movie some character.
  24. JN327 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2002
    star 4
    Ekenobi, You´re right. JW is a great music writer.

    If you´re gonna whine over a composer who keeps repeating himself take forinstance James Horner.

    In Titanic, Enemy at the gates, Apollo 13 and others he use the same theme to build up to something exciting. Now that´s irritating seeing a movie and thinking, "Hey, thats from Titanic?"

    And in Patriot Games he uses the Aliens space theme in the middle of the movie.

    So compared to others JW is very talented and versatile.
  25. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus/2014 Celebrity Deadpool Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    For the record, John Williams did not score Goonies.


    But anyways..

    James Horner is just as bad with reusing old themes and such. Compare Enemy at the Gates to Willow and you'll sware it was a sequel.

    Same with Goldsmith.


    They go thru patches. But think about it this way. Realize how difficult it must be 2 come up with a 2 hour score that doesn't rip-off someone elses work let alone their own. It's difficult.

    Give the man more credit.
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