"I should of known the Jedi were plotting to take over!" - Vader

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Luke-Jivewalker, Jul 10, 2006.

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  1. RamRed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    Vader did the equivalent of a sucker punch to Sids - he snuck up from behind, grabbed him and tossed
    him down a shaft..barely. He fell to his knees immediately after letting go of Sids.
    This only shows Vader had to get Sids while distracted b/c if not Sids would have fried him
    into a piece of burnt toast.



    May I remind you that when Vader was picking up Palpatine to toss him down the shaft, the latter was in the process of using Force lightning? Gee, I guess that's why Vader ended up being affected.

    And may I ask this question? If the loss of limbs had diminished Anakin's connection to the Force, why did he become more powerful after losing a right arm to Dooku's lightsaber in AOTC?
  2. ZamWesell44 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2003
    star 4
    Anakin would have killed Sidious if he found out he was lying, he did it all for Padme, so he figured he wouldn't make something like that up, b/c if she died, and he still had legs, he would have killed Sidious, and a 10 year old that can make C-3po is not stupid. He is proably smarter than all the characters, hes just way too emotional.
  3. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    As Lumyia explained to Jacen Solo about herself, Luke and Vader, a single loss of limb is fine. The power won't really diminish too much. But when it is four limbs, the damage done with the fire and all the life support equipment replacing certain organs, then it becomes a factor. Anakin had more damage done to his body fighting Obi-wan, than when he fought Dooku. The injuries on Mustafar were far more grevious than on Geonosis. As a result, his power diminished somewhat. Luke only lost one hand in his life, so he could still be connected enough to the Force to become as powerful as his father could've been. But had Luke been as messed up as his father, he would've been just as diminished.
  4. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    So I guess in the end..we are just crude matter after all.
  5. thebadge Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2002
    star 4

    Goo Post Sinister,
    Still why can't Anakin trust Obi-Wan or Padme.

    My gut tells me they would go to bat for Anakin on almost any issue.

    Its Anakin who refuses to reach out to Obi (he tells Padme that they are on there own about the baby situation), Obi would have helped Anakin IMO.
  6. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Obi-wan would've helped Anakin had he been made aware of the problem, by Padme or Anakin himself. He felt bad for not understanding the situation three years earlier. He would help him deal with it, but Anakin had to meet him halfway. Not let his jealously, anger and pride get in the way.
  7. thebadge Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2002
    star 4
    Yes,
    I agree totally. Ani would need to make an honest effort on his side. But Obi is very attached to him and only at the end on MUSTAFAR does he clear his mind and steel himself to do what must be done (seeing him in person and how he has truly changed cinches it, I suspect the whole journey there he was thinking about turning Ani back if at all possible)

    Even after viewing the Holograms he strongly objuected to Yoda pleading to send him to kill the Emperor instead. IMO that says a lot about how strongly Obi loves Ani.

    Despite being the penultimate Jedi, he clearly understands Anis idea of loyalty to people and after years of war (fighting at ANIS side) a long sit-down and clearing of the air with Ani admitting his marriage and mistakes (Palpatines tutelage etc) he would have forgiven him and fought like a tiger to help and save him.


    In the EPIII novel there is a passage between Obi, Mace and Yoda discussing this very idea. He basically says if he had to kill Yoda or mace or let them die for the better of all he would. But with Anakin he wasn't sure if he could.........

    Food for thought.

    Its good to be more active after very minimal activity for 6 months or so.
  8. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    But after what happened to his mom, Anakin was never going to ask Obi-wan for help again fearing that he might make the same mistake with Padme like he did with Shmi.
  9. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    It never hurts to try. You never know unless you do.
  10. Loco_for_Lucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Oh, I'm all about subtext, but rather, I saw different subtexts applied. That scene, and that line, shows Anakin at a time in his life when things are good. He exists for the moment, so when she says he's blind, he's literally blind to all other things. He's fixated on her. And when I discuss her lighting, I mean that it shows her in a manner that feels "realer," which reflects her practical nature in that scene. She's telling him the truth, she's telling his vision doesn't see the truth.

    That particular subtext ended though when he learned about the Sith from Palpatine in the opera scene. I saw the "love" angle, and all things about it, even being blinded by it, ended when Anakin had thoughts of power becoming possible. After that, he wasn't acting out of love, but out of greed. He wasn't acting for Padme, but for himself, so he could keep her as a possession. Love isn't about possessing, but sharing. Anakin didn't see her as a person anymore, but an object. He was starting to objectify her in the balcony scene, and it finally came into fruition, ironically, at another balcony.

    Hardly. It's extremely relevant. The difference is pivotal to the decisions Anakin makes.

    Compassionate love is the key to redemption; that's what allowed Luke to let his father go when he died and to burn the last remaining elements of Anakin's life. Luke, in the end, was able to let go, just as Anakin had in the end. Anakin had learned that life is not something to cling on to, but to let go of when the time comes.

    Possessiveness is a twisted view that leads to the Dark Side. If Luke were as possessive as Anakin, he would have stopped at nothing to "save" Anakin, thus making his father something to hold on to, and try "unnatural" means of keeping things as they are. Anakin's will would have been irrelevant, just as Padme's was in ROTS. He wasn't doing it for her, he was doing it for himself, so he could keep her alive. Death is a part of life; the Force itself is life, so death is a part of the Force. Anakin refused to see that until the end.

    Actually, Palpatine DOES need to show some sort of power, a display of sorts to make it believable. Anakin, as a young adult, became a man about immediate results. He was brash and impatient, that was why he was frustrated by the Jedi training and why he was angered that he was not given the title of Master outright. He wanted things right then and there. If Palpatine had not heavily implied that the existing Sith already had that power, Anakin would not have acted.

    He was told that Plaguis had taught that secret to his apprentice before being killed, and Palpatine was the Sith Master, so to Anakin, Palpatine had the power to do it.

    As it is, al
  11. yellow_command535 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Anakin was seduced by the dark side, consumed by Vader, his head was twisted screwed up, This is why he said this at least in my op.
  12. Sidious77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Anakin is naieve and has lost control of all his reasoning in the process of being so blindlessly selfish and just thinking about his needs. He may dress them up as it's all for Padme which is a lot of ****.
  13. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    Anakin already knows what happened to his mom and feels that it's Obi-wan's fault that it happened which is why he keeps telling Padme, "We don't need his help".
  14. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    It still doesn't hurt to try, especially when Obi-wan apologizes for it constantly. That's enough right there to think that he might be more open.
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