I still have trouble seeing Anakin become what he will.

I was watching SW/ANH and at the beginning when DV is holding the Rebel officer by the throat and then kills him, it's still hard for me to know that's Anakin. Particularly because of the way he killed the officer. It was nonchalantly brutal.

I know we've seen Anakin kill the Tuskens but in some way I felt he was justified.

I don't know, I was just wondering when you all see DV in his evilness is it hard for you to imagine its really Anakin under there?

 

Hmmmmm....

I'm not sure if you aware of this, but theres going to be a movie called Episode III, in 2005. I hear Anakin becomes Vader and does evil things in this movie.

Maybe that will help you?

 

I'm not sure if you aware of this, but theres going to be a movie called Episode III, in 2005. I hear Anakin becomes Vader and does evil things in this movie.


[[Hmmmm, I'm not sure you understand the topic.

What I'm trying to say is that I think as fans we've become emotionally attached to Anakin and genuinely like or love him as a SW character. When you view TPM and AOTC, then see him in ANH killing someone right away, its almost painful in a way to know a hero at one time, is doing this dispicable act.

Does that make sense?]]

 

I know what you mean BobaFrank, It is hard to imagine Anakin under that helmut right now...but when someone is consumed by the Dark side of the force, anything is possible. The Sith believe the Jedi's greatest weakness is compassion, therefore they show none.

 

I think the very fact that he wears a mask and armor and all that makes it hard to see any human at all in Vader.

Which, to some small extent, is part of Lucas' point.

I can see young Obi in old Obi and vice versa. Same for Yoda.

But I can't really picture the Anakin we know being Vader until he takes off the mask in ROTJ.

Of course, frankly, some of this is just based in how we look at human beings and interpret what we see in general.

I mean, if Hayden Christensen walked down the street in full Vader armor, including the helmet... would you be able to tell right off the bat if it was him? Mesa no tink so!


Rick McCallum loves you!

 

Great points all but I also believe because we are spoiled to the fact its Anakin under the helmet were forced to accept his actions and decisions no matter how terrible or good.

 

I can definitely see Anakin behind the mask, but it´s a different Anakin. One whose eyes are filled with hatred.
I think EpIII will nicely bridge the gap between Anakin and Vader, don´t you worry, BobaFrank.

 

When a human becomes more machine, both in body, mind, and spirit, a transformation takes over. This is a saga from beginning to end to returning to close the circle, the story of a person's life from birth to death to rebirth of the spirit to its original goodness.

 

I can definitely agree with BobaFrank on this one.

As of AotC, we know that Anakin is a good person with a good heart, that a few destructive flaws....Padme, a big ego, and a lack of emotional control.

But how he turns from a person with a good nature, to an evil murderer that has absolutely no redemptive qualities....well, lets just say Georgie has his work cut out for him.

It isnt the showing of his dark side that needs to be emphasise...this is a complete and utter rehaul of his personality. And one movie is a small period of time to show that.

At least in the OT, we saw the evil Vader in AotC, then his better qualities when dealing with Luke in ESB...and then in RotJ, his love for his son wins out. Its a strong change in character in each film.

I just dont see that thusfar in the PT.

 

"When a human becomes more machine, both in body, mind, and spirit, a transformation takes over."

Not trying to pick a fight, but I'm wondering what example you are getting this from.

 

"we can save him, make him better, stronger"

 

I can see Anakin as Vader, we saw in Episode II that he's capable of murder

And I think Episode III will show how he becomes hateful of pretty much the entire universe

And it also shows how hate can consume someone, after being Vader for so long all traces of Anakin are gone

 

"we can save him, make him better, stronger"

But this didn't change him in mind and spirit. He didn't go around killing people.

In fact, we don't even know what Steve Austin ( ), was like before his accident.

 

but with such drastic chemical/mechanical change, mental/emotional changes occur, too.

 

While I don't doubt this, your statement is far too general to make a serious point.

 

I don't think it's the case that I can't believe Anakin will become as evil as Anakin, I think its more that he's not as impressive, menacing or commanding. He just doesn't have that bigger than life Darth Vader presence and I don't really think Episode III is going to do it. I think it's more the actor than the role.

Also how does the slightly slurred speach of Anakin get to be the eloquent and articulate speach of Vader. The voice and speach pattern really ruins it for me (yes I know it's mechanical, but the speach is controlled by Anakin and the patterns would be the same).

 

"I don't think it's the case that I can't believe Anakin will become as evil as Vader,"

 

Obi-Can: You could always assume that his injuries make it more of an effort for him to speak, which is why he talks slower and more precise.

 

I have no trouble seeing Anakin become Vader. Anakin is for all intent purposes dead when he becomes Vader. He was replaced by Vader until Luke turned him back.

 

Alrighty, I must have missed this thread because I'm tired, so I'll repost the new thread that I made here.

I will be able to have this discussion in a little more depth once the third movie comes out, however I'd like to attempt it now.

My big problem with the new trilogy is that the young Anakin Skywalker has very little in common with Darth Vader. While I realize that turning to the dark side would change a person a bit, you'd think there would still be a few similarities. Throughout the new trilogy Anakin listens to no one, is very headstrong and isn't much into the lore of the force. However, throughout the original trilogy Vader is constantly obeying the commands of others, (ie Tarkin and Palpatine). Is this to be completely explained as being a slave to the dark side? Well Tarkin, most certainly wasn't a Jedi, why is Vader doing his dirty work?

Vader does seem a bit more like Anakin when he tries to get Luke to join him and "rule the galaxy as father and son", however how are we to know that that wasn't just another dark side trick?

In addition, there is Vader's deep respect for the power of the force in ANH, yet he shows none of this in the original trilogy. He seems to think of it more of a toy. Again, is this through the corruption of the force or just poor characterization on Lucas's part?

I also have this problem with Obi Wan, although I suppose seeing all of your friends being murdered would be a bit sobering.

Keep in mind that I'm going strictly on movies here, and no books in between.

Sorry for the redundancy of posts!

 

Actually, his character arc in the PT in my opinion is right on track with his character arc in the OT. In TPM, he is pure good. In ANH, he is pure evil. Just a killing machine that kills without remorse. In AOTC, he is evil only to the extent that he is good in TESB. (His trasnformation to the good side started in TESB, even though most people think it was in ROTJ. TESB is where I start seeing some humanity in him. And then at the end of the film, he refrains from killing Admiral Piett, when he most certainly would have done so at the beginning of the film.) In episode 3, he will be evil to the extent that he was good in ROTJ. YOu will remember in ROTJ that he was a bit of a softy. He even compliments an Imperial Officer for the first time!! In ROTJ, he mad a decision which brought him to the good side (saving Luke and killing the Emporer). IN episode 3 he will make a decision that will turn him to the dark side (possibly killing Padme? JarJar too?)

 

BobaFrank, I'm with you on this.

I have invested my emotions in Anakin, and I still cannot picture him becoming Darth Vader. In my eyes it cannot be done.
Episode 3 has to shake all the foundations of the character of Anakin Skywalker that I see, to make me really believe that he could become such an evil despicable monster.
And the film no doubt do it, but at what cost of my emotional investment? I'm not sure on that one, but I will definitely not like what I see.

Its one thing having Luke as your hero and seeing him become a Jedi Knight and the symbol of Good.
But its another to have Anakin as your hero (as in my case) and see him from a good guy to becoming the most evil man, second only to the Emperor.
I mean I idolise Anakin, I understand his frustrations, his hopes, his dreams (much like many of us understood Luke's) and yet to see and know that he will become Darth Vader, hmmm I don't think I can stomach it.

The fact is George Lucas will have to really bridge that gap, show me something that isn't only shocking but believable so that when I see Darth Vader in ANH, I will feel great pity and resentment towards him for who he has become.

I don't like the prospect, but it will be done

 

I get the same feeling too when I watch episode 1 I see Anakin not vader he does something nice for someone then when I watch t he old trilogy I'm like this is not Anakin Anakin would not do this

 

While I see your point in the transitions of evil, I am still having a problem seeing him go from reckless "I do whatever I want when I want" and completely against authority to the slave he is in ANH. I recognize that he will become a slave to the Emperor but what about Tarkin? In ANH he seems so subservient to Tarkin, and that doesn't seem to fit his character at all.

 

I heard some creative explanation about the Tarkin thing from someone on these boards, but I dont know where he got it. The person said that The Emporer and Vader are only making Tarkin THINK he is above Vader when he is not.