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Lit I think, if anything, Vector Prime should be the point of divergence from the sequel trilogy.

Discussion in 'Literature' started by IG_2000, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Well, yeah, the Star Trek timeline went wonky right from frame 1 when Nero showed up and blew up the Kelvin and killed Kirk's dad. So the old timeline is "destroyed" right when the movie starts, in fact the whole movie is set in a new timeline (aside from the mind-meld flashback, erm, flashforward that Spock shares with Kirk), but the old Star Trek timeline does still exist, there's just nothing in the movie that shows that it is still around. but, according to multiverse theory, yes, the OG Trek timeline is still there. out there. somewhere.
     
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  2. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Old Spock came from the original reality, in which Vulcan was destroyed, creating the film reality....

    Unless I'm so lost I should just stop. I haven't seen it since around when it came out...
     
  3. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Um no.......the flashback of vulcan being destroyed happened in the new reality. Original reality vulcan was never destroyed.
     
  4. Starkeiller

    Starkeiller Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Yeah, that's how it works in the real world as well. People make mistakes, then a few generations later their descendants repeat the same mistake. Governments are always complacent, and grow more so with time, that's why they are replaced by different governments continuously. And human beings in general are characterized by extreme stupidity throughout the ages. "Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel," the human story is one of stupid creatures making stupid things for stupid reasons, over and over again. Star Wars as history is more realistic than Star Wars as anything else.
     
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  5. Parnesius

    Parnesius Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2012
    That's often true at some level...but it obscures the greater human (and Star Wars) story, of ultimately irrevocable growth and progress.
    Like a snowball down a mountain.
    Or a carnival balloon
     
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  6. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Not what I recall the magazine with the "old" timeline saying....but this tangent needs o stop.

    I think Vector Prime is probably the best place to cut it off, if we have to. And maybe some other little cuts into the rest of EU..maybe no more Crystal Star. :p
    Or Rogue Planet, actually. That'd probably have to go.
     
  7. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Rogue Planet needs to go but talk about the timeline being wonky, given when that one takes place.

    (You'll have to forgive me if that was the joke. I haven't had any coffee yet.)
     
  8. Starkeiller

    Starkeiller Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2004
    :( See, I find that attitude the worst of all possible worlds. Something about it makes me sick to my stomach. I sincerely, sincerely hope they don't even contemplate it.

    No cut and paste, goddamn it. Either do the right thing or don't.
     
  9. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    But, honestly, the NJO on hasn't been well put together, and there were some major mistakes (IMO), so...it wouldn't be that much of a loss...
    But I agree its not ideal.
    I'm not a fan of any of the possibilities.
    I'm sure they'll at least contemplate it, though, because that's their job..
     
  10. Starkeiller

    Starkeiller Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2004
    I just hope that discussion within Disney didn't go far. It opens the door to a very, very dark world. I am not at all happy with a new Sith-led Empire taking control of the Galactic Alliance in Legacy, but that's what happened; I accept it because that's the way it works. I'm not happy with anything Katie Lucas was allowed to contribute, but I accept it in the same way that I accept the scar from the motorcycle exhaust pipe burn wound on my leg -- it's there, and there's nothing I can do about it, plus it reminds me to be more careful. Once the cut and paste begins, the EU loses its coherence and its purpose (to expand the universe). If the suit doesn't fit, there's only so much you can do -- tuck in here, let out there. Taking it apart will only make it unwearable.
     
  11. Danzo

    Danzo Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2012

    I think you're confusing Vulcan with Romulus. Spock attempts to stop Romulus from being destroyed, arrives too late and is then goes back in time along with Nero. Nero arrives first and kills George Kirk creating a new parallel timeline, Spock then arrives and is captured by Nero and forced to watch as Vulcan is destroyed. The original timeline still exists with the destruction of Romulus set after the events of Star Trek: Nemesis, whilst the new timeline takes place in a parallel universe.
     
  12. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
    But, honestly, the NJO on hasn't been well put together, and there were some major mistakes

    it's a masterpiece. There are no mistakes. Name one mistake Because even if you name luke being timid in the beginnning as a mistake i see that as a logical plotline, considering the situation.
     
  13. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    There's an invasion, billions of citizen are dead and the senate can barely get their asses off the couch to strike back. Democracy doesn't work that way. When the populace is attacked it will scream for blood and it will not accept apologies. This is a political climate in which fanatics rise to the top, not couch potatoes who don't actually do anything but giving the Jedi trouble.
     
  14. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Sorry for the out of order nature of this list. It was written as I remembered them, and I'm too lazy to reorganize it.


    In addition to the above post,
    the OOU mistake of planning to have Anakin as a hero, then belatedly trying to switch to Jacen. The death of Mara Jade for really no reason, then Mirta Gev. The molesting/torture. Tahiri after Anakin goes. Too many plot lines at once in FotJ. Dark Nest trilogy (need I say more on this?). The fact that plans seem to change a bit thought NJO as to where this is going. Having a duology setting up a conspiracy/rebellion against the New Republic by the people who worked so hard to create it, only for the next book to suddenly have the government just calling itself Galactic Alliance, with literally /nothing changed at all/.
    The fact that nothing is done for ages about the invasion of the Vong.
    That Chewie died to save Anakin...who then gets killed off a few books later, making Jacen the "hero."

    Basically, there've been some really not so great things in there...although there are good things as well...

    There are always mistakes with /anything/ by the way. The EU is by no means a masterpiece.


    But, focusing on the topic, the real reason cutting NJO on would be the best break point option is because it is a clear, clean break, it brings back Chewie (who's almost certainly going to be in the ST), frees Disney's hands a bit with figuring out the films, and everything won't fall apart if you get rid of it. And honestly, I think they could do better.
     
  15. Sith_Knight087

    Sith_Knight087 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2012
    From the sounds of it, maybe the post-ROTJ EU was just simply ''Placeholder'' continuity until the ST could be made.
     
  16. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    The quality of the NJO, or in fact any EU work is irrelevant. Once you start cherry-picking the continuity and eliminating materials you can never stop. Besides, most of the EU is too self-referential to allow this. The removal from canon of even something absurd and minor triggers a domino effect.

    The NJO however, is largely an exception to this, and it is an exception because of how it is structured. The Yuuzhan Vong come from outside the galaxy. Until they appear they have no place within the history of Star Wars, no interaction with anything else. Even the works that reference them prior to their arrival en masse acknowledge this, using terms like 'Far Outsiders' (as an aside, the Far Outsiders can easily be retconned into some mean Unknown Regions species that Thrawn's Empire of the Hand beats the stuffing out of, preserving Rogue Planet, Outbound Flight, and those other few references).

    This is, actually, a major stroke of luck in some ways. If Del Rey had launched a TOR-style massive Sith invasion or some sort of Imperial resurgence the level of self-referencing would be off the scale and it would be impossible to excise cleanly. Instead the shift in license holders created a break right at the point in the timeline where it turns out we now need one.
     
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  17. Bib Fartuna

    Bib Fartuna Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    I think you should diverge to the "Thee hath no faith" forum. :(
     
  18. dewback_rancher

    dewback_rancher Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2009
    As far as the question the OP raises, I would... surprisingly be okay with this. I'd rather lose the NJO and after (a lot of which has disappointed me, and yes I'm one of those people that really didn't like the NJO, and I expect a lot of flak over that same as every time this comes up *sigh*) than the entire EU as a whole.
     
  19. Bib Fartuna

    Bib Fartuna Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    The only thing that really annoyed my post NJO was the Birds Nest trilogy, the rest has been semi-okay.
     
  20. dewback_rancher

    dewback_rancher Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2009
    So, you're fine with a frankly insane Imperial war criminal being made Chief of State as the best possible choice, Jedi Council members fighting duels to the death in the Jedi Temple over idealogical differences, repeated disturbing imagery involving injuries (exposed brains, disembowlements, the works!), and basically everyone in the galaxy being repeatedly written as Too Dumb To Live?
     
  21. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Legacy of the Force was pretty good except for the ending of Invincible. I can't defend that one. Aside from Characterizations getting pretty butchered and some plot points getting dropped I still love LOTF. Much better than FOTJ and DNT. NJO is still the best though.
     
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  22. dewback_rancher

    dewback_rancher Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Eh, NJO started the trends that really snowballed in DNT, LOTF, and FOTJ.

    What with the novels focusing on the horrors of the Yuuzhan Vong War, spending excrutiating amounts of time on the death and torment of everyone, going out of their way to describe every single second in a torture, having the government completely incompetent left and right, people constantly acting like idiots, the Jedi like a bunch of arguing busybodies instead of guardians of peace and justice in the first half of the war...

    As I said, I'd be utterly fine with the NJO being thrown out.
     
  23. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I'm glad the NJO changed the MO from the Bantam books. The fun adventure stuff was good and all but the stakes weren't all that high to me. The NJO was the start of a new era in Star Wars.
    The problem after the NJO is that there is no hope. Even in the darkest day's of the NJO, there was always hope things would turn out alright. A hero would be there to step up. Now with FOTJ more so than LOTF we don't have the happy ending the NJO had. LOTF could have ended alright if they didn't elect Daala. FOTJ was a terrible ending. Rehash of TUF. The post NJO needs to combine the fun adventure feel of the Bantam books and the darkness of the NJO.
     
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  24. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Before NJO, fans were complaining that the Empire no longer seemed like a threat. NJO was created in response to these complaints. Now, fans complain about there being a galaxy-wide conflict in every book.
     
  25. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    It's also a political climate where the galaxy just went through a war. So it'll try and appease for as long as it can, before it faces up to the stark reality. Reality also being, that a lot of the Rim Worlds lost were relatively new members to said democracy and the Core just didn't care. The populace wasn't attacked... just the low-populated rim. It wasn't until Fondor that a major world (population-wise) was hit, and it was destroyed.

    The fanatics did rise to the top. Just in 40 ABY. And a few fanatics still made their way out of the woodwork, such as Sal-Solo. But said fanatics had been purged by the New Republic a few years before the Yuuzhan Vong arrived.

    Daala-wise, there are several reasons shown off-screen which are detailed in FotJ for her rise, and I could give you others too. It's not ideal, but the galaxy's response to Daala doing anything out of line was to paint her in the same light as Sidious, Vader and Caedus and then riot on her doorstep, welcoming the subsequent government and then being quite concerned about the one thereafter. I'd say the GA is more sensitive to nutters than it was pre-Caedus. Which is good, because the idea that 'the Empire is a better way' has been pretty well destroyed by the actions of Caedus, Daala and Lecersen.

    Good is good and bad is bad again.