I think Lucas has this whole ROBOT thing backwards...

Because don't you think that robots (battle droids) would replace humans (storm troopers) as soldiers instead of humans replacing robots?

I mean... in real life, wouldn't robot soldiers be much more efficient. They're warriors without are emotionless, will do exactly what you tell them, and have no FEAR.

In every movie robots are superior to people (Terminator, The Matrix, etc.)

Also the whole Darth Vader being a weak half man half robot doesn't seem right to me....

In a galaxy as technologically advanced as the one in Star Wars, wouldn't bionic body parts make you more powerful? I would think that a robot hand is stronger than a regular one, and that robot legs would make you jump higher, etc.

I think the reason things are like this for Star Wars is because the 2 trilogys were made BACKWARDS.

 

In every movie robots are superior to people (Terminator, The Matrix, etc.)

These movies are based on the concept of artificial intelligence, something which apparently doesn't exist in the Star Wars universe. The whole reason that robots are inferior to humans is that they can't think for themselves.

 

good point.

but what about the robotic limbs?

I think GL decided to say that they made Vader weaker only after the PT came up.

He saw it as an excuse for Vader not pulling off as much flashy moves in duels as there are in the PT.

He also said it was cause Obi-wan was old and Luke was still very young.

But I think that if they had been made in order, Darth Vader would have been stronger cause of the robot parts, Obi-wan would be just as agile as Dooku in his old age, and Luke would kick as much ass as Anakin did in AotC.

I really wish Lucas had never said that.

 

A common theme running through SW is the superiority of human instinct to technology. Time and again this occurs. In ANH,a technolgical terror is destroyed by a farmboy who turns off his instrument panel. In ESB, a smuggler in a beat-up ship evades the greatest military machine in the galaxy by hiding in plain sight, but out of view of their radar. In ROTJ, primitives ignored by the Empire aid the Rebellion in taking down Imperial troops. In TPM, a droid invasion force is shut down when a little kid destroys the main computer. And in AOTC, a droid army is pounded by organic clones.

Lama Su states that "clones are immensely superior to droids" because they "can think creatively". While droids are no better than the programs that go into them, clones, as organic, sapient beings, can adapt to new situations, think on their feet, and most importantly, they can exceed what is put into them, by using logic and making connections. But they are still products of techonology, and are still trained to be obedient, and somewhat souless. So in turn they are defeated by rebels, in the OT.

But even this rule is not absolute. Some droids, like 3PO and R2, have more humanness to them than, say, Boba Fett or General Veers. They are invariably the good guys. Bad droids, like battle droids and droidekas, are identical in appearance and personality, with no emotions or human characteristics.

In a way, this is somewhat like the other stories you mentioned where the evil robots take over the world, but are defeated in the end by humans. The difference is that Lucas doesn't even give them that much credit; the evil droids in the GFFA couldn't even take over the world in the first place (look at TPM for proof of this).

EDIT: Forgot to address Vader.

Vader, once Anakin, a human with all human parts, has over time lost appendages starting with his arm and progressing to the rest of him after his fight with Obi-Wan. He strengthens physically, but he is a much weaker person overall. He relies completely on technology; without it, he can not move, speak, or even breathe. When he is hit with the Emperor's electricity, his mechanical parts shut down, leaving only the human parts left. This is why Anakin asking Luke to remove his helmet is such an important moment: the respirator/pressurized helmet/voice box is the last part of technology left working. By taking it off, he purges the last bit of Vader by removing entirely his reliance on techonlogy, accepts his own death, and becomes truly redeemed.

 

Lord_Hydronium, that was beautiful










Excellent thoughts.

 

Great post, Lord_Hydronium.

 

I still like the inital premise that trys to use science fiction to disprove science fiction.

"Lucas got his robots wrong because in this other fictional work, robots behave differently." ?

 

GL has said many a time that Battle Droids are very inferior to humanoids.

In the TPM DVD, Steven Speilberg brings up this very question, and Lucas explains that "Jedi cut them down like they're butter"

 

Actually, no. GL hit the target right on with his depictions of "robots" in the Star Wars Universe.


Contrary to your belief that robots are stronger than man, the Star Wars Universe is based upon intellect and conniving pieces in larger puzzles. Such is the case when it comes battle techniques and planning- all come into play when comparing robot to man.


The droids for the Trade Federation are not independent thinkers, for they lack any cerebral programming or control system components- in fact, their entire way of movement is controlled by a Central Computer System (CCS), in which is ususally that of a large orbital space station/ship or a Trade Federation Special Commander.

That said, the droids can't even think on their own- they are controlled by sentient beings that are most likely not even in the vicinity of the area.


When it comes to droidekas, however, these machines have an independeted operating appendage, but only to an extent- these robots too must have sentient being coefficient aide in doing the majority of activities required by such a machine.


Super Battle Droids are the same- they require no overriding command signal in order to execute normal duties, and so a limited amount of artificial intelligence is involved within the mechanics of the "soldiers". Yet their make is still that of steel and uncorrective material, and so great effectiveness is still not achieved.



Human soldiers, however, have free-thinking enterprises and planning, so tough situations are easily trod through and complicated areas of expertise are skimmed through.

Humans (or any sentient beings for that matter) are better than robots in the sense that they have emotion- emotion to battle, to combat, to achieve goals, and to attain victory through many and any means necessary.

Granted, human emotion can get in the way- from making one stop fighting to revolts and rebellion against authority. However, the positive gains highly outweigh the negative falls, and so the human intelligence and independency is greatly better than that of a robot.

Especially since maintainace would be a VERY large problem when it comes to larger armies and surface patrolling.


Like Lama Su said:

"LAMA SU: Clones can think creatively you will find they immensely superior to droids.We take great pride in our combat education and training programs. This group was created five years ago.






Regarding "bionic replacements" and "robotic appendages", yes there would be a certain degree in superiority of performance when it came to certain skills required of this- however, treating and maintaining a healthy and operating robotic limb or replacement requires much treatment and "getting used to". Also, there are cases in which the being does not cooperate with the appendage, in which case it is better to leave it alone or not have a replacement at all.


****SPOILERS BELOW****

Regarding Vader, you have to figure he was practically dead when he was "revived"- he had fallen into a lava pit after his fight with Kenobi, and who knows what shape he was in (we'll find out in Episode III- can't wait! ). He had to have life support and a few bionic limbs just to keep him alive, and the adding of a bit more mechanical pieces of machinary added to his ability to walk, talk, and even engage in lightsaber combat.





All in all, I think GL did a GREAT job of showing robots vs. man. It fits in quite nicely in why the Empire relies more on human soldiers rather and mechanically controlled ones....


Ken Kenobi- And you have a nice day

 

Remeber 'Well if droids could think, thered be none of us here.'

 

Droids are far less reliable than humanoids. Look at how easily they were defeated in TPM and AOTC.

 

"They're warriors without are emotionless, will do exactly what you tell them, and have no FEAR"

You just described clonetroopers.

 

Ret: Yeah, he DID describe clonetroopers there.


It would have been describing droids if he would have said....


"They're warrious that are emotionless, will do exactly as you control them, they have no FEAR, can break easily, can have programming problems, and can't think on their feet"





Ken Kenobi- And you have a nice day