Senate I Want to Believe-The Senate's Social Thread and Secret Society Roundtable

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Mr44, May 17, 2008.

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  1. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    I've used this comparison before, but it bears repeating: asking from people to notice the "Senate" tag before posting, is not different from asking people to notice the "Spoilers!" disclaimer, and both entail a different set of rules inside the thread and different behavior from the posters.
  2. DarthTunick Arena Streak for Colors Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10

    My opinion on that: I remember how adamant I was at the beginning against the Community in general, thinking it was a terrible... which very much helped changed my mind/eased about how I feel about the Community forum now (I love it) was the old forum names present on the tags. It's better to acknowledge integral parts of JC history & lore than to have generic tags... it would be like if they had named the new Yankee Stadium in The Bronx (which opened in 2009) as the "Bronx Stadium for Baseball".
  3. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    make the senate its own board again. that way the two mods get to keep their internet powers and the two or three people who still exclusively senate-post will have a place to call home
  4. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    Apart from the election what are these overlapping topics? A sincere question.

    Also there is no such thing as a "senate level intellect". I wish we could just drop this whole 'us versus them' thing as it's stupid.
    Last edited by LostOnHoth, Nov 9, 2012
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  5. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    any topic discussed in the senate can be discussed in the jcc and often are. they were even moreso before the merger, because there wasnt a redundant senate megathread preempting them
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Nov 9, 2012
  6. SuperWatto Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 5
    Somebody put this guy Jabba back in charge of something.
    Last edited by SuperWatto, Nov 9, 2012
  7. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Nobody said that there was a 'senate level intellect.' Just 'senate level posting.' Which means posting a short essay, basically.
  8. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Make the Senate a roving forum. You can move it to lit one month and then to Fanfic another month. The best part is the Senate would be so volatile it would leave nothing in its wake. The Senate would be like Umbriel, the infernal city.
    Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi likes this.
  9. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    Yes potentially any topic can be discussed in both forums but apart from the election which overlapping topics have you seen often in both forums? I can't recall any so that is why I am asking. Again a sincere question.
  10. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    that's why "intellect" wasn't inside the quotation marks. believe me, i know full well there's not such thing as a "senate-level intellect". and if there were, it certainly wouldn't be anything to aspire to
    harpuah likes this.
  11. SuperWatto Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 5
    In the past, I have seen topics in the JCC that were perfect Senate material. Think science and politics news.

    That will still be a problem when the Senate is moved away from the JCC, though. So I don't know how Jabba and Rogue have that figured.
    Last edited by SuperWatto, Nov 9, 2012
  12. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    gun control, homosexuality, racism, anthropology, sociology, religion, politics, philosophy, science. the jcc has had threads on all these topics. its not my fault you didn't read it and im frankly disinterested in recapping 10 years of it for you. if you paid ever so slightly more attention, you might find a jcc-tagged thread on free will on the front page at the moment, as well as one on gabriel giffords and mental-health reform.

    watto the problem is not that the senate exists, but rather that in its present form it preempts and makes redundant jcc topics by appearing on the same page as them. this stifles debate between people who find the senate rules pedantic and silly. im confident anyone who DID read the jcc before the move can confirm the truth of this effect.
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Nov 9, 2012
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  13. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    And the threads in the JCC attracted more spammers and had sillier answers. The senate rules tend to weed those out, altho we do still get them occasionally.
  14. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    I've tried nothing, and I'm all out of ideas, Super. That's why I don't really feel very strongly about this. Whatever makes people feel comfortable is fine, but I worry that the mods are going to feel compelled to do more to scare people away from using the senate tag, although it hardly seems possible people could feel even less inclined to use it.
    Ender_Sai likes this.
  15. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    maybe we like our silly answers and don't appreciate interlopers chasing them away
  16. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Or think about the opposite kind of poster, like Wocky, who floats above the silly stuff and makes high quality, insightful posts no matter what else is happening in a thread. He never seems deterred or distracted by the chaos of a really dynamic topical JC thread.
    harpuah and Rogue_Ten like this.
  17. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    That's why it made sense for there to be a Senate in the first place. Also the fact that IIRC the problem that caused the Senate's creation was that there were a lot of serious topics cropping up that could be handled elsewhere.



    Yeah, that's true with raising the level of discourse, but are you really going to be willing to do that if nobody else is doing so? It's a measure of futility. The more an effort feels like it's going nowhere the more likely it is that person will quit. Unless you're Wocky, of course.
    Last edited by Fire_Ice_Death, Nov 9, 2012
  18. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    i can think of two major effort posts ive made in the last two days alone. and you should know me better than to assume that was just because of the senate tag - it should be well established by now that i dont respond well to e-threats, and besides, i can get by in senate threads without making big posts with charts and quotations. i did it because i felt i had something big and effortful to contribute to the topic, and would have done the same in a jcc thread.
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Nov 9, 2012
  19. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Well, yeah, Wocky's style is easier to admire than emulate.
  20. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    I'm really getting tired of the assumption that "high-level" in-depth discussion doesn't happen in the jcc... it simply isn't true. I have to agree with Hoth... this "us vs them, higher standards, and senate-level" nonsense is stupid.
    Last edited by harpuah, Nov 9, 2012
  21. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Well, it's not like that reputation was foisted on the JCC or anything. There was some merit to it. This isn't an 'us vs. them' attitude. More like...'your community kind of gave itself a reputation for being weird and low-brow.'
  22. AAAAAH Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    can we isolate the senate again?
  23. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    Agreed. The reason I really liked the alternate tag names that Daveeeeed listed before was that it totally breaks down the old, irrelevant and redundant barriers and lets us create something new. Serious discussion means the onus is on users to contribute to the discussion; not to say that one clique isn't capable of it and only "we" are.

    Still, I think there are two things we can take away from this;

    1) Irony is a wonderful beast. Two people who call themselves progressive are being staunchly conservative on this matter. Will that enable them to see how conservatives think? Pfft, not a chance.
    2) JCC types are trying to engage in a discussion asking for humility (which I'm seeing isn't a big thing in the Senate mindset) and more inclusiveness as a community. They want to partake, they just find the Senate types drive them off.

    #2 contains no learnings whatsoever and it's clear people just can't match the Senate's titanic intellect. Yeah. Yeah! That's what it it. And how dare anyone suggest the ivory tower is made of papier mache. [face_sigh]

    You're being given a gift here, 44 et al. Use it.
  24. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    And there's merit to the idea the Senate's up itself. Seriously, if I can see that... [face_party]

    There are three former Senate mods in here talking about the merits of change. Do you see us all as Benedict Arnold-types? :p I'd have thought - appeal to authority incoming! - that it would instead have given people reason to consider the other side of the argument?
    Last edited by Ender_Sai, Nov 9, 2012
  25. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Good point. And you would be correct. Even I can see that. But I thought 'Floor' really added something to our prestige.

    /not serious
    //I mean it.
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