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Senate I Want to Believe-The Senate's Social Thread and Secret Society Roundtable

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Mr44, May 17, 2008.

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  1. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 8 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    I've used this comparison before, but it bears repeating: asking from people to notice the "Senate" tag before posting, is not different from asking people to notice the "Spoilers!" disclaimer, and both entail a different set of rules inside the thread and different behavior from the posters.
     
  2. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick SfC Part IV Commissioner star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000

    My opinion on that: I remember how adamant I was at the beginning against the Community in general, thinking it was a terrible... which very much helped changed my mind/eased about how I feel about the Community forum now (I love it) was the old forum names present on the tags. It's better to acknowledge integral parts of JC history & lore than to have generic tags... it would be like if they had named the new Yankee Stadium in The Bronx (which opened in 2009) as the "Bronx Stadium for Baseball".
     
  3. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    make the senate its own board again. that way the two mods get to keep their internet powers and the two or three people who still exclusively senate-post will have a place to call home
     
  4. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2000
    Apart from the election what are these overlapping topics? A sincere question.

    Also there is no such thing as a "senate level intellect". I wish we could just drop this whole 'us versus them' thing as it's stupid.
     
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  5. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    any topic discussed in the senate can be discussed in the jcc and often are. they were even moreso before the merger, because there wasnt a redundant senate megathread preempting them
     
  6. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    Somebody put this guy Jabba back in charge of something.
     
  7. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi

    Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Nobody said that there was a 'senate level intellect.' Just 'senate level posting.' Which means posting a short essay, basically.
     
  8. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Make the Senate a roving forum. You can move it to lit one month and then to Fanfic another month. The best part is the Senate would be so volatile it would leave nothing in its wake. The Senate would be like Umbriel, the infernal city.
     
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  9. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2000
    Yes potentially any topic can be discussed in both forums but apart from the election which overlapping topics have you seen often in both forums? I can't recall any so that is why I am asking. Again a sincere question.
     
  10. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    that's why "intellect" wasn't inside the quotation marks. believe me, i know full well there's not such thing as a "senate-level intellect". and if there were, it certainly wouldn't be anything to aspire to
     
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  11. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    In the past, I have seen topics in the JCC that were perfect Senate material. Think science and politics news.

    That will still be a problem when the Senate is moved away from the JCC, though. So I don't know how Jabba and Rogue have that figured.
     
  12. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    gun control, homosexuality, racism, anthropology, sociology, religion, politics, philosophy, science. the jcc has had threads on all these topics. its not my fault you didn't read it and im frankly disinterested in recapping 10 years of it for you. if you paid ever so slightly more attention, you might find a jcc-tagged thread on free will on the front page at the moment, as well as one on gabriel giffords and mental-health reform.

    watto the problem is not that the senate exists, but rather that in its present form it preempts and makes redundant jcc topics by appearing on the same page as them. this stifles debate between people who find the senate rules pedantic and silly. im confident anyone who DID read the jcc before the move can confirm the truth of this effect.
     
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  13. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi

    Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2002
    And the threads in the JCC attracted more spammers and had sillier answers. The senate rules tend to weed those out, altho we do still get them occasionally.
     
  14. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    I've tried nothing, and I'm all out of ideas, Super. That's why I don't really feel very strongly about this. Whatever makes people feel comfortable is fine, but I worry that the mods are going to feel compelled to do more to scare people away from using the senate tag, although it hardly seems possible people could feel even less inclined to use it.
     
    Ender_Sai likes this.
  15. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    maybe we like our silly answers and don't appreciate interlopers chasing them away
     
  16. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    Or think about the opposite kind of poster, like Wocky, who floats above the silly stuff and makes high quality, insightful posts no matter what else is happening in a thread. He never seems deterred or distracted by the chaos of a really dynamic topical JC thread.
     
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  17. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    That's why it made sense for there to be a Senate in the first place. Also the fact that IIRC the problem that caused the Senate's creation was that there were a lot of serious topics cropping up that could be handled elsewhere.



    Yeah, that's true with raising the level of discourse, but are you really going to be willing to do that if nobody else is doing so? It's a measure of futility. The more an effort feels like it's going nowhere the more likely it is that person will quit. Unless you're Wocky, of course.
     
  18. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    i can think of two major effort posts ive made in the last two days alone. and you should know me better than to assume that was just because of the senate tag - it should be well established by now that i dont respond well to e-threats, and besides, i can get by in senate threads without making big posts with charts and quotations. i did it because i felt i had something big and effortful to contribute to the topic, and would have done the same in a jcc thread.
     
  19. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    Well, yeah, Wocky's style is easier to admire than emulate.
     
  20. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    I'm really getting tired of the assumption that "high-level" in-depth discussion doesn't happen in the jcc... it simply isn't true. I have to agree with Hoth... this "us vs them, higher standards, and senate-level" nonsense is stupid.
     
  21. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Well, it's not like that reputation was foisted on the JCC or anything. There was some merit to it. This isn't an 'us vs. them' attitude. More like...'your community kind of gave itself a reputation for being weird and low-brow.'
     
  22. AAAAAH

    AAAAAH Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2012
    can we isolate the senate again?
     
  23. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Agreed. The reason I really liked the alternate tag names that Daveeeeed listed before was that it totally breaks down the old, irrelevant and redundant barriers and lets us create something new. Serious discussion means the onus is on users to contribute to the discussion; not to say that one clique isn't capable of it and only "we" are.

    Still, I think there are two things we can take away from this;

    1) Irony is a wonderful beast. Two people who call themselves progressive are being staunchly conservative on this matter. Will that enable them to see how conservatives think? Pfft, not a chance.
    2) JCC types are trying to engage in a discussion asking for humility (which I'm seeing isn't a big thing in the Senate mindset) and more inclusiveness as a community. They want to partake, they just find the Senate types drive them off.

    #2 contains no learnings whatsoever and it's clear people just can't match the Senate's titanic intellect. Yeah. Yeah! That's what it it. And how dare anyone suggest the ivory tower is made of papier mache. [face_sigh]

    You're being given a gift here, 44 et al. Use it.
     
  24. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    And there's merit to the idea the Senate's up itself. Seriously, if I can see that... [face_party]

    There are three former Senate mods in here talking about the merits of change. Do you see us all as Benedict Arnold-types? :p I'd have thought - appeal to authority incoming! - that it would instead have given people reason to consider the other side of the argument?
     
  25. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Good point. And you would be correct. Even I can see that. But I thought 'Floor' really added something to our prestige.

    /not serious
    //I mean it.
     
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