I would like to know how TF.N will respond to this...

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Danielrh9, Oct 28, 2001.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. FatboyTheLapdog Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2001
    "How is what Charles did (reposting on the front page of his site emails in an attempt to belittle Scott, regardless of how 'justified' he felt it was) something the entire SW community can be proud of? To me, that response was just as petty and juvenille as people would claim TFN is."

    If I may answer and then be summarily banned as per usual [face_mischief]

    Okay, what's worse in this scenario: threatening another fansite with frivolous lawsuits, thereby setting a precedent for behavior that would be unheard of and patently ridiculous in the eyes of almost every other fansite reader on earth, especially over a poor-taste throwaway joke--or posting those emails for all to see?

    How is this juvenile and petty? Yes, the joke pic was juvenile and in poor taste--but fansite suing fansite? That's not even MORE insulting?? Like I've said, this would not only throw Star Wars fandom headlong PAST the worst fanaticism of Trekkies (I've never heard of Trekkies suing each other, as far as I remember) in the eyes of many, not only would this draw heaps of negative press to these spots, mocking and laughing at us and taking away any modicum of respect we might have--but the ensuing brouhaha would BURY US ALL. You think Aldera would have the money to continue on? You think TFN would survive while fending off LFL lawyers and using their own in a laughable, frivolous lawsuit?

    TFN IS #1, there's no question about that--what they do reflects on us all. Fans suing other fans because they can't take a joke reflects REALLY poorly. Chitwood trying to get websites yanked because of his own bruised ego ISN'T good for the fans reading fansites. Why people dont' understand this, I dont' know. Fans NEED to know about it, because that way they can make their opinions and voices heard and maybe stop this whole mess from completely sinking ALL of us.

    And that's not even taking into account how Lucasfilm would look at it. You think they'd want this kind of embarrassment hung on their name? Fansites DO reflect on LFL, this is fact as well--how tolerant you think they're gonna be of us if they see we're filing lawsuits and threatening legal action in inflated misleading terms over joke jpegs? You think they're gonna be that patient?

    "How is what he did noble? How is what he did in the interest of the SW community?"

    Silence is complicity. If he hadn't made any noise and acquiesieced with Scott's not-based-on-any-sort-of-reality demands, what would have stopped him from suing Jedinet? Episode-X. YOU. It's not like suing individual messageboard members hasn't crossed his mind before. So are you saying Prince should have shut up and let Chitwood bully him? Not brought this to light for other people to see? People not bringing stuff like this to light is what let Chitwood GET to the point where he thought he could sue someone over NOTHING and get away with it.

    So once again, where's the pettiness in STOPPING that from happening, publically? You make it sound like those emails were posted, that article was posted at Jedinet simply to stab at Chitwood--it's that old "they're jealous" mindset dominating your thinking, and it's fouling you up. I mean, it's cool that you can see some of Damion's points, but until you get past that soap-opera type mentality that says this is all fueled by jealousy only, I don't think you'll truly get what Damion is saying. Chitwood's and TFN's actions are threatening ALL of fandom online. Charles was having his rights threatened. So your solution is--he should shut up and take it? Is that really what you're saying?

    awaiting banning,
    Fatboy

  2. Lil Wookie Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 3
    I say we put Scott and Charles alone in a room together so they can prove to each other once and for all who ahs the bigest member...count, and the rest of us should just get back to enjoying Star Wars. The fight is between them.
  3. FatboyTheLapdog Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Yeah, we could charge money and have the proceeds go to poor star wars fans who need extra tickets to Episode II :)

    Although watching Scott and Chuck squeal and claw each others' eyes out might not make for good prime time viewing, yunno?

    Maybe a wet T-shirt contest instead?
    Fatboy
  4. Mr. P FanFic Archive Editor, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2000
    star 5
    The nazi picture was really mean, and no matter how much you hate someone, if you did that to anyone, they have a right to be mad. Whether it's libel or not, common decency states that you shouldn't put it up in the first place.

    --Mr. P
  5. tobi1kenobisss Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    oh boo hoo. I cannot believe you people have no sense of humor. It was done in jest. and only jest. If someone put a pic of my head on a nazi I would laugh. Perhaps you should not take it so seriously.

    Great post Fats and Damion
  6. DarthKimbal_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    lol Tobi

    Was it really so mean that the pic was created? Is it not worse to try & bully others around?

    Actually, no because it's more like a temper-tantrum.
  7. Lil Wookie Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 3
    Jeeze, Imperator_Damion, it was a joke. Talk about no sense of humor. It was a metaphor for...something else that men like to boast about!

    I mean, you can come out with a lot of different reasons that the web masters are fighting. Scott has a legitimate complaint. Charles has a legitimate complaint. Schott has a legitimate complaint about Charles' legitimate complaint. Charles has a legititmate complaint about Scott's legitimate complaint.

    Man, no matter what is going on these two are going to find something to fight about. Thats what rivals are. Its like America and Russia in the cold war. Both of them had legitimate complaints mainly because both of them looked for them. Its a group of guys being guys and seeing who is the alpha geek. Its human nature in this dog eat dog world of petty fandom. Fandom which, by the way, always attracts those whohave no control over the real world so the concentrate a sub culture like trekkers or star trek fans were they can have some control.

    What i am saying is man, most of us do not care. This is a fight between guys who want to be the big dogs, let them fight it out and let the rest of us get on with being geeks in peace!

    (And no, I do not mean they are jealous of each other...just that they are showing their testosterone levels in html code.)
  8. FatboyTheLapdog Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Wookie, ugh:

    THEY'RE NOT FIGHTING OVER WHO GETS TO BE THE BIG DOGS..

    this keeps hanging people up, I don't know why. No one's reading, apparently.

    There's no contest over who the big dog is, thats' not even a question. And it's not about rivalry or one-upsmanship. Maybe for SCOTT it is--but Aldera HAD a decent relationship with TFN. As a matter of fact, I'll go so far as to say Aldera was probably THE LAST of the known Star Wars websites to NOT have given up on Scott and Josh. So Chuck misjudged how Scott and Josh would take the image, misjudged poorly. He DID apologize. That sound like a rivalry? He did what scott told him to do..keeping in line with a rivalry? You're making it sound like Chuck and ScottnJosh constantly snipe at each other ever since the two sites went up--and that isn't the case. Not even close.

    THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PAGE HITS, PEOPLE.

    Aldera didn't post the emails in a bid to get more hits than TFN. Jedinet didn't post that article because they were desperate for readers, anyone LOOKING at those two sites and actually READING the articles can see that pretty easily, that is, if they're looking even REMOTELY objectively and not seeing this through some kind of soap-opera tint. They were posted to let YOU GUYS KNOW how quickly TFN is going to run ALL OF THIS INTO THE GROUND if left to their own devices. And since you guys VISIT here, maybe you should know about it and look at it. I mean, TFN is actively trying to get ENTIRE WEBSITES PULLED OFF OF THE INTERNET FOR THIS. If LFL did that to TFN, what do you think the reaction would be? TFN has set it's site up to be "TFN against the world" and its' been that way for 2 or 3 years. There ARE fansite rivalries, yes--but have you EVER seen a fansite try and get another fansite yanked EVER?

    That sound like fansite rivalry chest-thumping to you?
    Fatboy
  9. DarthKimbal_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    "This is a fight between guys who want to be the big dogs, let them fight it out and let the rest of us get on with being geeks in peace!


    It starts to effect all of us when lawsuits & threats of shutting sites down start get thrown around.
  10. Lil Wookie Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 3
    I did not say it was about page hits. What I am saying is that its a childish rivalry that people are trying to disguise at other things.

    I have read, and I have drawn my own concolustions. The conclusion is that they are BOTH acting like immature jackasses with inferiority complexes!!! They are going to keep going at it until one of them is proven right, and one of them is proven wrong, and the entire fandom agrees! And most of the fandom could care less.

    If they were really mature about this, they would keep it private instead of running to the community crying "Mommy, he hit me!!!"
  11. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6

    Charles complied with Scott's demands; he APOLOGIZED. He removed the image.
    I was under the impression that that image is still on display over on the forums. I was under the impression that Scott asked Charles to remove those images as well. So, it doesn't seem as though he fully complied.

    I'm not suggesting it wasn't within Charles' *rights* to post such an image. In my opinion, yes, he has every *right* to do it. Was it in poor taste? Yeah, I think so. Was it funny? If you can take the joke, sure. If you're the object of the joke? Well, that's a little harder to laugh about.

    I can completely see both sides of the coin here, but when Charles responds by posting Scott's emails and ridiculing him, he lowered himself to the level that he was accusing Scott of being on. He took away the right to claim a moral highground.

    I think Charles' reaction (regardless of whether it was 'worse' than Scott's) was very childish. It's not becoming of his site. The instant he did that, he made his site a site about other SW fan sites, and not about SW.

    I'm not condoning anyone's actions in this, but I certainly don't think one side is 'more right' than the other, given the childish nature of this whole thing.

    Vertical
  12. Lil Wookie Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 3
    There ARE fansite rivalries, yes--but have you EVER seen a fansite try and get another fansite yanked EVER?


    Sorry, meant to answer this. With fan sites, no...but with rival fan groups I see it all the time. Thats why I don't go to Star Wars conventions or Star Trek conventions or any of those any more, because every one I go to there is nothing but petty squabbling and bickering...and I know of several of those people who are involved over in lawsuits over stupid stuff.
  13. Koreynl Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2000
    star 4
    Hi guys,

    This is GunsBlazing, webmaster of Operation Sombrero. Yesterday I received a notice from our provider asking us to take down the article that was a parody on the situation described above after they had received a complaint from Scott Chitwood from TFN. I replied to my provider that I had no intention of doing so and that they would have to be more specific about what the problem was with said article as I had received no complaints from any visitor to our site. I also expressed my opinion on satire, parody and free speech and after actually looking at the article more carefully they agreed it was obviously a harmless satirical comment but that the nazi references were not appropriate, also because it could be used out of context. I read the complaint by Scott Chitwood and it was obvious he has no idea who we are. To clear things up, the images were not created by Operation Sombrero although he stated to our provider that they were. Also, Scott Chitwood told our provider that Operation Sombrero has malicious intent against him and that we had stated we would continue the harassment through our website. Both are blatant lies. This one article was a satirical comment that no one in their right mind would take the least bit serious or as a threat. In fact, to show Scott Chitwood that we have no ill will against him we took down both the nazi and the kermit picture and replaced them with images of ourselves. We even had the article changed and put our own heads (and that of Charles Taylor from Aldera) on the chopping block.

    However, Scott Chitwood from TFN demanded that our provider SHUT THE ENTIRE SITE DOWN!!! Talk about common decency all you want, demanding to have an entire website shut down because of a parody is way out of proportion.

    If Scott Chitwood had contacted me personally and had asked me to remove the image I would probably have done so. Anyone familiar with our site knows that for the most part we write articles taking the mickey out of everyone and their mother, including ourselves, but that in no way are we out to deliberately hurt people. The nazi pic was in bad taste but it was there to illustrate the article that was clearly about the legal threats against Aldera.

    I personally don't have that much against Scott Chitwood (at least I didn't before he threatened to shut all these sites down over a bruised ego), I used to be a fequent visitor to this site and I guess everyone has the right to run their site the way they see fit within boundaries of the law. That goes for TFN, that goes for Aldera and that goes for Operation Sombrero.

    About banning people that badmouth TFN on other boards, if that's the case then I guess a whole generation of mods and admins is right now packing their bags and looking for a refuge. As administrator on both Aldera and Episode X (and hopefully soon Operation Sombrero) I can assure you that you're free to say about us whatever you like whenever and wherever you like it without having to be afraid we ban you from our boards.

    One last thing, putting blame on Charlie Aldera and actually threatening to sue him for being a dumb kid is pretty ignorant. I mean, that's what he is. A kid with a fansite. Like Scott and Josh are kids with a fansite. You're all at the mercy of Uncle George and I think escpecially TFN should know better than to threaten fellow fans of a movie that's meant for 12-year olds. Try stepping out of the box, it's refreshing.
  14. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    I cant make an informed comment about TF.N. But the images were wrong, and I dont need to be informed to see that. That wasnt like when Jedinet had those dumb anti-TF.N logos, this was whichever site it was likening someone to the most evil man who ever existed. That is wrong
  15. sithavenger2000 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2001
    And I REALLY don't buy this "Aldera lowered himself to Scott's Level" thing at all--I don't see him "ridiculing" scott in that article, merely calling him out for pretty blatant and obvious stupidity. Scott forced the issue. Hell, to take it one step farther, NONE of this whole weeklong brouhahah would have sparked off if Scott had just exercised some restraint and didn't give into his vengeful petty impulses. No lawsuit threats after Chuck had already complied? No article on Aldera. No article on Aldera? No article on Jedinet. No article on Jedinet? No bannings of people simply because of the other websites they post to on these boards. No freakish cover-up and squashing of discussion? Then you probably don't inspire some kid with way too much free time to dig up in your private forums and publish them for all the world to see.

    This all spirals RIGHT BACK to TFN. And even after ALL this, what's going on? He's STILL trying to get websites pulled off the internet. For what? A bruised ego. No more, no less. And everyone's giving him a free pass because the pic that sparked it was in poor taste and you don't like Charlie Aldera? If that's the case, at least just come out and admit it, because I can't see the reasoning behind completely ignoring the harm Chitwood is doing to fandom right now simply because Charles "dropped to his level, too.."

    And if people were actually paying attention to Aldera, and looking back at it's history, you'd notice that Charles making an ass of himself and other webmasters is the STATUS QUO. Charles himself has a number of pretty messed up images floating around in other people's sigs. Hell, there's one of me being fondled by Griffin floating around on those boards. T'bone just had a poll on the front page making fun of his hair, Sevaan Franks has a pic of him looking like a wolfman. At one time or another, EVERY Star Wars webmaster has had his chain yanked by Charlie Aldera. Yet only ONE has thrown the world-class hissyfit that brings in lawyers even AFTER his demands were adhered to.

    Fatboy Roberts

    Posted by SithAvenger

    P.S. I'm just waiting for the Chitwood and Griffin T-shirts that say, "I am not a crook."
  16. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    and because noone else did anything, that makes it right?
  17. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    I don't care about any of this other crap but what's going on with the PSA forums that's so bad? We can close threads that break the rules but we can't control the quality of posts.
  18. Taun_We Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2001
    star 3
    Why were those posts deleted?
  19. Darth_Palpy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    This is ridiculous, banning/erasing their posts because you dont agree with them????

    They werent trolling or flaming actually, the whole thing was going FINE................It was intelligent discussion.
  20. Darth_Palpy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    I mean, yes the nazi pic wasnt the funniest parody in the world, but they have the right to express their opinion, whether u like it or not. In my opinion, yes it was in poor taste. Yes to a certain extent I COULD consider it funny. But the fact remains that Scott's response was very childish and juvenille, but so was the picture. I mean, yes I do think Scott asked for it, no I dont think it should've been made. TF.n is already in a VERY fragile state and this only makes matters worse. TF.n is supposed to set an example by being the biggest and the best, but time and time again continuously defies LFL and crosses the line with some of the things they have done. Not that posting spoilers is bad, but remember the footage shown of Hayden? THAT crossed the line.............
  21. Ternian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2000
    star 4
    I think that TF.N has come off as EXTREMELY unprofessional in this whole situation; that is how I percieve it.

    If TF.N is the number one website, then there is no reason for them to play dirty tricks with othersites. ie.Trying to close them down or posting uncredited stories from their sites.

    Scott needs some PR lessons. Aldera is no threat at all to TF.N and he should learn to accept rivalry with dignity - not law suits.
  22. Darth_Palpy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    exactly what i think Ternian!

    -Darth Palpy
  23. law-wars Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2001
    The ball is in TFN's court. There is no legal grounds for any of this bullying...and that's what it really boils down to. TFN can puff its chest out all it wants, but the tighter they grip...you know the rest of the quote.

    Scott and Josh should just be content with their technological terror that they have created and be quiet. They can't place themselves out into the public arena without having some balls and tough skin...cowboy up and deal. Popularity has a price, and that can include being called a proverbial Hitler.
  24. JarJarFields Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2000
    star 2
    3 Questions:

    What happened to Damion's post and some of the others? I can't find them anywhere.

    Why are many of the people in the thread posting opposing viewpoints to TFN getting banned?

    Am I going to be banned now for asking these questions? [face_mischief]
  25. law-wars Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2001
    Short answer: yes, because...

    Long answer: no, but...
Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.