I would like to lobby for an overhaul of the Disallowed Words list.

Hello. I will be using banned language in this post. Not in a flippant or discourteous manner, but because it would be otherwise impossible to have the discussion I wish to have by starring everything out. If you feel this is not appropriate, please stay your hand, because I believe that this is a discussion that is much needed.

To start, I would like to offer a bit of context. I was edited quite recently in a post in this thread for using the word “asshole.” I did not do it to be rebellious or thumb my nose at authority or anything like that. I really have no problem reigning in my admittedly loose tongue to conform with the rules of these boards. In fact, I took a moment before posting, as I often do to try and remember if the word in question was allowed or disallowed. I knew that “ass” is seen as okay, so I figured that “asshole” would be as well.

Evidently, I was in error. It was a mistake on my part, and perhaps I should have took the time to check the list to be doubly sure. But I did not, for one very simple reason: finding and using the disallowed words list is a pain in the ass.

To avoid you having to look for it, I will post it here:

When I look upon this list, I can see where it is now and where it was when I joined. Since that time, near a decade ago, the list has in fact gone through a sizable change. We are now more liberal with the words we allow.

I am not here, necessarily, to lobby for an increasingly liberal stance on language. For the most part, I find the list acceptable. There are some things in it that cause me irritation, though. When I look at the list, I see a thing that was once well thought out and purposeful. But then, as time went on- and by the influence of bureaucracy- changes were made. And they were made haphazardly and piecemeal. And you can see this in its present form.

At the bottom of the allowed list, you have the changes we have made over the past several years: WTF, Goddamn and Jesus Christ.

And then in the disallowed section, you have the most bizarre stipulations to these things. Only “WTF” is allowed. No other usage of the letter “F” in an acronym. I realize that this was decided for a reason. However, I submit that times are different then they were, as they are wont to be. We've got these new movies to look forward to. Which means an increase in site traffic, as we have all seen.

It's my belief that these previous changes were allowed because the craze of Star Wars had stagnated, and we were left with a small, familial community. So we were allowed to loosen our collective tie and relax.

It is my belief now, that we should again adjust our tie. Tighten it, or loosen it more, I do not know. I would like it if in this metaphor, we changed the knot in it entirely.

I look at our past successes and failures, and I weigh them against other successful communities on the internet. I implore you all to take some time and do the same. As the mod team well knows, right now is the time to make revisions to our rules, to allow for the changed face of the web, and to draw in (and more importantly keep) the maximum number of new users.

So to help facilitate this discussion, I would like to better state my misgivings:

1. Acronyms. It's strange to only allow one very specific acronym. Were I new here, I do not believe I would be able to grasp the political reasoning behind this. I would think it was weird and confusing. And I would be very much off-put. I think we should allow any acronym with the letters “F” or “S” in them. I think that as long as an acronym is not directed to flame or bait another user, used in an untoward sexual manner or violates the spirit of our board law, it should be allowed.
   
   There is of course the danger that users might run rampant with their use, and board language would devolve into petty acronym talk. However, the deluge of lolcats and 1337speak and horribly improper grammar that the internet as a whole has had to face over the years tells me something. It tells me that such things are only momentary diversions, and sensible and understandable language will remain the primary language of these boards. As we have seen with the allowance of “WTF” and “Goddamn,” users CAN be trusted with increased levels of freedom in their speech. Most are not likely to abuse it. I see myself as a pretty heavy user of derogatory language here, and even I do not feel the need to press that advantage.
   
   And those that do are likely trolls, and will not last long, or pay much attention to said rule anyhow.
   
   
2. I really do not understand why “ass” is allowed, but “asshole” is not. Very specifically, “asshole” is just the hole in the ass. Where the poop comes from. But I do not how that is more derogatory than a simple ass. I can see the difference in usage and intent. Asshole is admittedly a more limited word than ass. There are fewer ways to incorporate it into language not directly pointed at another user. But those ways do exist. For instance, I might wish to make a joke and call the Great Red Spot “Jupiter's Asshole.” Flexible and inventive language can be a boon to a post, if only you give it the chance to. And I just cannot understand its wholesale banning as a means to try and prevent name calling.

These are my two primary gripes. As I say, I'm not standing on my soapbox, Bill of Rights in hand, demanding we change all the rules because I let slip the wrong word. I am just asking that we analyze the Disallowed Words list as a whole, and change it as necessary to be more comprehensible and understanding of our current sociopolitical status amongst internet Star Wars message boards.

So please just take a moment and consider these issues, and any others you may have, and let us get this bitch goin'.

I would agree that both instances you mention at the bottom of your post are a bit ridiculous.

Whether or not the word list is changed as a result of this, it definitely needs to be reorganized. The "Allowed" and "Disallowed" lists need clearer definition. There are words on both lists which are allowed only conditionally. Whether you want to put those words under allowed or disallowed, there needs to be some standardization. Additionally, I would suggest words on both lists be organized, possibly alphabetically, so that it may be easier to find the word in question on the list. For example, if I were skimming the list trying to see if I could post something, I might not see "Dick" because it is both removed from the left-most side of the post and also not in any sort of order.

Yeah this has kind of been a problem for a while. One thing I would consider for the immediate though - with a new movie, means new users, which means younger users becoming more rampant. I'm not saying we should ban every word, but I think getting a clearer and a bit stricter set of rules would be best.

As far as ass vs. asshole goes - we shouldn't have either I don't think. They're both curse words. I understand some of us live in more relaxed environments with curse words, but "ass" has forever been something that's inappropriate to say to your grandmother or parents or I don't know...at work? Would you say "Gosh darn my ass is sore today" to your supervisor? Some of you might. Most of you probably wouldn't.

And, maybe this is just me, but there's not even a small amount of disallowed words that have been just left around the JC for a longgggg timeeee now. I haven't really said anything because why would I actually care, but since this is being discussed...I don't want to be insulting, but there's not a kind way of saying that MS is getting to be more than just a little bit lazy in that area. I know some mods are totally busting their glutes off, but there's just...a lot who aren't. With editing swears. Which is something that takes 2 seconds to do. I'm just not sure why, maybe because we've been mostly adults here for so long and we're not used to new younger users, so they don't feel the need?

Also I propose that we ban the word bukkake.

I agree that making changes to increase consistency would be beneficial. I agree with you about acronyms - either include all acronyms with F and S, or disallow all of them. I'd be in favor of disallowing all of them, given that we're likely to have more younger viewers in the near future. In general, I think we have a good set of rules, we just need to be consistent in both their definition and their application.

I agree with Amos and Ess Ell Gee. Consistency ensures the best compliance to rules. In determining the direction of said consistency, we ought to be conservative in order to protect the young people that are amongst us.

No offense Grimby, but citing the Simpsons as a gauge for politeness in life is a little...off. I totally understand that to you, the word ass doesn't mean much. To me though, the word **** doesn't mean much. But it's not my place to tell kids and teens on the internet how to speak or what swear words are right and which are wrong. I'd stay on the side of caution with this one. If it's a swear, it's a swear. Adding the ending of "hole" doesn't change the word. It's still a swear with or without.

Okay, so using your network tv guage... why can't we say douche? Hurley used it all the time... "that dude is a total douche", etc.. I can see why it wouldn't be okay to say "you are a douche" to another user, or whatever, but I don't understand why it's a banned word, otherwise.

I think above all, disallowed words aside, it is our responsibility as older users to set an example for new users - to make them feel welcome, encourage participation and foster an environment that thrives on the respect we have for one another as Star Wars fans, no matter how old the user is. That is the type of community I would like to be a part of, and overwhelmingly this has been the case from my own experience as a long time member. As we all know, children are very intelligent, creative, and see things in new ways that adults simply don't; however, they are VERY impressionable and emotionally vulnerable compared to adults. Derogatory/Vulgar/Mean language directed at them personally by adults or by better adjusted children would be abusive in my opinion. Not trying to sound corny but it is my understanding that language is a living, breathing, constant expression of shared meaning that resonates within and through each and everyone of us. In other words, the words we say to each other can have a profound impact despite the lack of real life interaction.

Posting something like: userXYZ is a douche/asshole because he/she liked what happened to such and such a character, etc could lead to a flame war. On the other hand, posting: It was funny how in last night's CW episode characterXYZ acted like a douche/asshole when he did XYZ seems fine to me as long as the point is something other than character bashing. The issue then is that while words like douche/asshole and even worse words and expressions can be used "in good taste" by mature users, the opposite is also true in that this place is not intended to be for mature users only but for everyone in the star war community.

I agree 100% with what Jabba-wocky said, especially in terms of being clear and consistent.

I don't think anybody is asking for ms to allow users to direct these words at other users.

obviously

Just on the subject of "ass", it has the dictionary, and hymnal, definition of 'donkey' -- and in England (possibly the whole of the UK) it holds the meaning of 'fool'.

Pssst, harpuah, douche is on the allowed list.

I think it's fine how its been

Hold it, hold it, hold it... we're allowed to name-call users those naughty words on here?!
Why have found this out only now? So many missed opportunities!

Life has just started all over again.

*dances the happy swear mouth dance*

I just noticed wank is still on the disallowed words list and would like to lobby to allow the word "wank" in the context of "arguments on the internet".

I don't think anyone over the age of 13 needs to be protected from acronyms (excuse me, Jello, initialisms). As has been discussed time and time again, allowing "lm*ao" rather than "lmfao" or "B*" instead of "BS" doesn't really protect from any offense, it's just unnecessarily encoding something that's already been encoded.

Make sure @GrandAdmiralJello knows that, because he edited it a couple days ago. (Which is why consistency would be useful.)

Huh... when did that happen?

Very interesting thread!

I'm a newcomer and a Brit. We love our swearwords.

I can confirm that ass in the UK is either a donkey or a fool, though some (uneducated) youngsters use it in the American sense. Arsehole is a very minor insult over here. On a par with wanker or bellend maybe...

I suppose as long as the word you're using isn't too rude for young children, it should depend on the context, eg., 'bugger off' is bad, but 'keep buggering on' is okay..?