I would smack Anakin upside the head if i was Obi-Wan!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa, Mar 24, 2004.

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  1. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    Well, if you watch Attack of the Clones for 20 minutes, you will notice that Anakin tends to whine constantly. But notice in the Coruscant Apartment scene; he give Obi-Wan complete disrespect. If i was his Master, i would slap him upside the head like the readheaded stepchild i know he is.

    Obi-Wan: Captain Typho has more than enough men downstairs. No assassin would try that way. Any activity up here?
    Anakin: Quiet as a tomb. I don't like just waiting here for something to happen to her.
    Obi-Wan: What's going on?
    Anakin: Meh, she covered the cameras. I don't think she liked me watching her.
    Obi-Wan: What is she thinking?!
    Anakin: She programmed R2 to warn is if there is an intruder.
    Obi-Wan: There are many other ways to kill a Senator.
    Anakin: But we also want to catch this assassin, don't we, Master?
    Obi-Wan: You're using her a bait.
    Anakin: It was her idea. Don't worry, no harm will come to her. I can sense everything going on in that room. Trust me.
    Obi-Wan: Too risky. Besides, your senses aren't that well attuned, my young Apprentice.
    Anakin: And yours are?
    Obi-Wan: Possibly. [face_plain]
    *Zam programs assassin droid and sets it to find Senator Amidala*
    Obi-Wan: You look tired.
    Anakin: I don't sleep well anymore.
    Obi-Wan: Because of your mother?
    *Anakin nods*
    Anakin: I don't know why i like dreaming about her.
    Obi-Wan Dreams pass in time.
    Anakin: I'd much rather dream about Padmé. Just being around her again is...intoxicating.
    Obi-Wan: Be mindful of your thoughts, Anakin. They betray you. You've made a commitment to the Jedi Order; A commitment not easily broken. And don't forget, she's a politician and they're not to be trusted.
    *And then on...*

    I mean, this little snippet is enough to prove that Anakin literally has no respect for Obi-Wan, only a focus on Padmé and his pre-teen points of view. With the "and yours are" snapback at Obi-Wan is especially disrespectful. Anakin thinks he is the sopririor, but is proven time and time again wrong. Obi-Wan isn't trying to make anything hard for Anakin, but Anakin always has to get the last word. Now, i know many Padawans are brought up in the Order a lot younger than Anakin was at that time, but that kind of crap could grow off over time. Anakin is 20, he was acting like he is 12.

    I know this is meant in the storyline, which all led into the events in Episode III. I'm just making a point here. Anakin = Not >3.
  2. fosh-bantus88 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2003
    star 4
    this was done on purpose to show how obi wan failed as being anakins master.

    it is important for teachers to bring their students in line so that they can better appreciate thier knoledge, but obi fails to do this, and as a result, anakin is over confident and wreckless.
  3. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Well, if you watch Attack of the Clones for 20 minutes, you will notice that Anakin tends to whine constantly.

    Well, if you watch ANH for 20 minutes, you will notice that Luke tends to whine constantly.

    Did you want Uncle Owen to smack him?

    Also, Obi-Wan knew Anakin liked Padme and continued to embarrass the hell out of him in front of her anyway. "You will learn your place, young one." [face_plain] I would have back-talked him too, and much worse than Anakin did.
  4. Obi-Wan2001 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 2001
    star 4
    It always cracks me up, the people who think Obi-Wan was somehow overly harsh to Anakin. Anakin totally disrespected Obi-Wan in Padme's apartment. In the scene you're talking about, that is, anakin_girl. He needs to learn his frickin place. And Obi-Wan's over it by the end of the scene. And Anakin basically disobeys his master left and right throughout the film. I'm sure a ton of Jedi masters would have been a lot less cool to Anakin than Obi-Wan is.
  5. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    In the scene you're talking about, that is, anakin_girl. He needs to learn his frickin place.

    No, he does not. He has the right to his opinion--he's 20 years old and has been a Jedi for ten years. And he was right--why shouldn't they be trying to find out who was trying to kill Padme? If Obi-Wan disagreed, he could have handled it later, and in a more human fashion. He chose not to. He chose to humiliate Anakin, practically stomp him into the carpet and grind him there with the heel of his boot, in front of the girl he liked.

    I have seen parents talk to their kids that way and I have seen kids suffer for it--either they become more rebellious or they just become more distant from their parents because they are so hurt, and they assume that the parent doesn't like them as a person or care about their feelings. What Obi-Wan did was beyond insensitive.

    I'm thankful my parents didn't treat me like that. Obi-Wan treated Anakin like a cockroach who deserved to be squashed, not like an adopted son that he supposedly cared about.
  6. Sith_Sensei__Prime Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 6
    "Well, if you watch ANH for 20 minutes, you will notice that Luke tends to whine constantly.

    Did you want Uncle Owen to smack him?


    There was a deleted scene where Owen smacked Luke upside the head with a rolled up newspaper while wearing boxers and a stained wife-beater shirt, which is why Luke was so scared when R2 escaped. ;)

    Besides, would you smack Luke if you knew who his father was?
    Owen Lars: "That's what I'm afraid of."
  7. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Besides, would you smack Luke if you knew who his father was?

    *rolls eyes*

    No, I wouldn't. I'd smack Palpatine.

  8. Obi-Wan2001 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 2001
    star 4
    Good Lord, anakin_girl. What movie did you see ?[face_plain] Everything you said about Obi-Wan's treatment of Anakin on AOTC in no way describes Obi-Wan's treatment of Anakin in AOTC. That cockroach bit is comedy gold cause of how totally off it is. You're love for Anakin has clouded your vision.
  9. Azanulbizar Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2003
    star 1
    I don't think Obi-Wan was embarrassing Anakin on purpose, nor do I think it was beyond insensitive. He was trying to bring Anakin in line. Anakin should not have questioned Obi-Wan or the Jedi in front of a Senator - no matter who she was - and it would have been out of character for Obi-Wan if he hadn't responded to Anakin's misstep.

    If Anakin is 20 years old and entitled to his own opinion, he should know proper behavior, too. If Anakin disagreed, Anakin could have brought up later with Obi-Wan rather than embarrass himself in front of the girl he liked.

    From their conversation I also get the sense that this has happened before; this is not the first time Anakin has tested the limits of authority.

  10. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Good Lord, anakin_girl. What movie did you see

    The same one you did, I assume--but I wasn't looking to find things wrong with Anakin.

    I don't think Obi-Wan was embarrassing Anakin on purpose, nor do I think it was beyond insensitive. He was trying to bring Anakin in line.

    It was not necessary for him to do that in the humiliating manner in which he did it. Think about how you would feel if your father-figure talked to you that way in front of a girl you liked--particularly when what you said, even if it was contradictory to what he said, was with the best of intentions. If he wanted to shut Anakin up, all he had to say was "We'll discuss this later, Anakin." "You will learn your place, young one" was just degrading, mean, and cruel.
  11. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    Obi-Wan never imberrassed Anakin. He was trying to prove he was sopirior, and he was always proved wrong. And that being Anakin's intentions, i think it was good that he was publicly humiliated.

    This was done on purpose to show how obi wan failed as being anakins master.

    Obi-Wan never failed, nor did the Council. The Council was perfectly wary of Anakin's problems and they did their best to coach Obi-Wan on teaching Anakin how to deal with them. But, as Padmé says, there are some things no one can fix. Ten years have passed, and Anakin is still dwelling on his mother and his lust for Padmé. As you can see, Obi-Wan never wants to fight or argue with Anakin, he is always trying to soothe the conversation and just say 'okay' just so he won't ramble on any longer. This isn't Obi-Wan's fault, and i couldn't say it is Anakin's fault either. The soul dwells far from the mind.
  12. BuffAnakin Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2003
    star 1
  13. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    And that being Anakin's intentions, i think it was good that he was publicly humiliated.

    I doubt you'd say the same if you got humiliated like that in front of a girl you liked.

    The Council was perfectly wary of Anakin's problems and they did their best to coach Obi-Wan on teaching Anakin how to deal with them.

    Bull. Obi-Wan brings up Anakin's issues, and Mace says, "Obi-Wan, you must have faith that he will take the right path." Brushes him off.

    Ten years have passed, and Anakin is still dwelling on his mother and his lust for Padmé.

    Lust doesn't last ten years. It's love.

    And his mother? Ummm...she's his mother. I have no intention of forgetting mine ten years from now either.

    As you can see, Obi-Wan never wants to fight or argue with Anakin, he is always trying to soothe the conversation and just say 'okay' just so he won't ramble on any longer.

    Pfffttt...

    "You will learn your place, young one" was "saying OK"? Yeah, right. It was "soothing the conversation"? I'm afraid to see what not soothing the conversation would be.

    You don't tell someone to "learn their place" unless you're prepared to start a fight.

  14. Azanulbizar Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2003
    star 1
    I don't think Obi-Wan was being degrading, mean or cruel. When Padme says she wants answers, Obi-Wan informs her that that's not their job. Anakin ignores this and promises Padmes they'll find the killer. Obi-Wan then reiterates to Anakin that they'll only be following their mandate.

    Anakin's response to this is not that he understands and accepts it, but that he'd be willing to exceed the mandate 'in the interest of protecting her.' He has shown twice that he doesn't plan on listening to Obi-Wan or the Jedi's orders.

    Obi-Wan responds by getting a little more strong in tone and tells Anakin that the current discussion is over and to follow his lead.

    Anakin then makes the mistake of directly contradicting his superior. "Why?" he asks, as in, 'Why should I follow your lead?'

    Obi-Wan responds with a simple but direct "What?" which even makes Jar Jar gulp nervously - he knows Anakin is out of line, and he understands the warning look and tone of voice Obi-Wan is using.

    Anakin just digs himself in deeper by not backing down but instead pressing the point they should exceed their mandate, and also that simple security is beneath the Jedi.

    Obi-Wan then has to repeat for the third time that they will be following the Council's instructions. He also tells Anakin that he will 'learn his place', which to me means that Anakin needs to respect Obi-Wan and authority, but also needs to learn his place as a Jedi - referring to Anakin's arrogant tone about the Jedi.
  15. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    A_G. You, mi'lady, are nuts. :p

    I doubt you'd say the same if you got humiliated like that in front of a girl you liked.

    But that is what Anakin deserved. He pledged his allegence to the Jedi Order. Lust is clearly forbidden, and Anakin needed to learn his place. Humiliation being a little hint to Anakin to get in gear.

    Bull. Obi-Wan brings up Anakin's issues, and Mace says, "Obi-Wan, you must have faith that he will take the right path." Brushes him off.

    After ten years, do you really think this was the first problems Obi-Wan ever had with Anakin? Of course not. He without a doubt mentioned it to them before. Meditation served them well. And remember when Anakin first goes before the Council in The Phantom Menace, they sensed many trials and tribulations within him at that point.

    Lust doesn't last ten years. It's love.

    Love? Anakin has no idea what love is. He was with Padmé for a small time ten years ago at the time of Attack of the Clones. Since she was unlike any girl he had ever known, he just stuck her in his mind and never forgot. He hadn't seen her in ten years, too. It wasn't love, it was simply a crush. Lust can last forever.

    And his mother? Ummm...she's his mother. I have no intention of forgetting mine ten years from now either.

    Anakin's age was a primary factor in this. The Jedi take potential younglings at a very young age, an age young enough for the younging to never know anything of his past and relations. That morely adapts the Jedi to thinking the Order is their mother, if you will. Anakin was 9 years old, and considering he was so closely drawn with his mother in slavery, it was hard, but it could've been done. Anakin pledged to the Order, that kind of love is forbidden, either way.

    As you can see, Obi-Wan never wants to fight or argue with Anakin, he is always trying to soothe the conversation and just say 'okay' just so he won't ramble on any longer.

    "You will learn your place, young one" was "saying OK"? Yeah, right. It was "soothing the conversation"? I'm afraid to see what not soothing the conversation would be.

    I wasn't referring to that quote at all. What's up with all of these assumptions these days? I was referring to incidents such as in the elevator. Anakin was being his old self, trying to prove Obi-Wan wrong, and Obi-Wan didn't even try to bring up an arguement. He just chuckled to bring apart any heat. As for the "you will learn your place, young one.", Obi-Wan wasn't looking for a fight at all. Even at Anakin's hostile state, calming is good, but no matter what, he needs his dicipline. And no, a fight was not what Obi-Wan was looking for. He was practicly telling Anakin he didn't need the last word in everything.
  16. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    But that is what Anakin deserved.

    For what? Trying to do the right thing by finding Padme's killer? If you remember correctly from the rest of the film, Anakin was right--and Obi-Wan did end up going off to investigate after all.

    Blind obedience is stupid.

    Lust is clearly forbidden, and Anakin needed to learn his place. Humiliation being a little hint to Anakin to get in gear.

    What Obi-Wan did was not a "little hint", it was disgusting, humiliating, and treating Anakin like crap. I would never talk to one of my students that way over arguing with me.

    And remember when Anakin first goes before the Council in The Phantom Menace, they sensed many trials and tribulations within him at that point.

    But loving your mother is not a crime, and the Jedi need to stop acting like it is. Neither is having a crush on a woman. It's natural and human.

    Love? Anakin has no idea what love is.

    He quite obviously does. He is married to her for several years before he falls into the lava. That isn't a product of lust. And no, lust doesn't last years. I've felt both lust and love--lust is fleeting. Love is not.

    . The Jedi take potential younglings at a very young age, an age young enough for the younging to never know anything of his past and relations. That morely adapts the Jedi to thinking the Order is their mother, if you will.

    Which is sickening--they might as well have used the clones from Kamino. "They are programmed to be docile, and to do whatever they are commanded..."

    As I said, loving one's mother is not a crime. Ordering a guy to stop loving his mother should be a crime.

    Anakin was 9 years old, and considering he was so closely drawn with his mother in slavery, it was hard, but it could've been done.

    Sure--and who was going to teach him to do that? Name one single Jedi that had a remote idea what Anakin was feeling or how to help him overcome it. None of them did.

    As for the "you will learn your place, young one.", Obi-Wan wasn't looking for a fight at all.

    Anyone with common sense should know that if you humiliate someone like that, you will get a fight. So either Obi was looking for a fight or he was pretty damn stupid, and I have a hard time believing the latter.
  17. FuzzyRatt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2003
    star 3
    But that is what Anakin deserved.

    For what? Trying to do the right thing by finding Padme's killer? If you remember correctly from the rest of the film, Anakin was right--and Obi-Wan did end up going off to investigate after all.

    Blind obedience is stupid.


    To true, anakin_girl . Anakin was right. And Obi-Wan ended up on Waterworld looking for clones.

  18. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    For what? Trying to do the right thing by finding Padme's killer? If you remember correctly from the rest of the film, Anakin was right--and Obi-Wan did end up going off to investigate after all.

    Obi-Wan was in charge, NOT Anakin. He had no right to go giving off promises he had no clue if he could keep.

    What Obi-Wan did was not a "little hint", it was disgusting, humiliating, and treating Anakin like crap. I would never talk to one of my students that way over arguing with me.

    Disgusting? Treating him like crap? Jeez, you're acting like Obi-Wan told him to **** off or something. OBI-WAN WAS THE MASTER, ANAKIN WAS THE PADAWAN. I don't think Obi-Wan was harsh at all. Anakin needed dicipline, Obi-Wan served it. It was well done in my opinion.

    But loving your mother is not a crime, and the Jedi need to stop acting like it is. Neither is having a crush on a woman. It's natural and human.

    Well, as Anakin says on his many 'non-human' remarks, "the Jedi are better than this." The Jedi are the best and the most precise in the galaxy, and they are not about to let that slip through. Decipline is a key factor in success. If you don't like it, go have a talk with Lucas. See what he has to say about that. Maybe he'll edit the whole saga.

    He quite obviously does. He is married to her for several years before he falls into the lava. That isn't a product of lust. And no, lust doesn't last years. I've felt both lust and love--lust is fleeting. Love is not.

    Obiviously not. He has known this woman for just a few weeks. She, other than his mother, is the first person he ever met that cared for him. Anakin had no real knowledge of human feelings, so he just took it that he loved her when he had no real thoughts on what love is. For ten years, all that crossed Anakin's minds was "i wish i was with Padmé right now". When he came back and met her later, it was 'intoxicating' because he overexaggerated everything in his head for those long years. When they find themselves together, you see the spots are switched. Padmé feels safe with Anakin, and she takes that as her version of love. My point is made.

    Which is sickening--they might as well have used the clones from Kamino. "They are programmed to be docile, and to do whatever they are commanded..."

    The Jedi are the protectors of the galaxy. Mere feeling will not get them anywhere. They needed younglings with good potential. But no, the Jedi treat the youngings in no way like slaves. They care for them and provide everything they will possibly need. And the Jedi are not slaves of this ancient religion of the Order.

    Sure--and who was going to teach him to do that? Name one single Jedi that had a remote idea what Anakin was feeling or how to help him overcome it. None of them did.

    Anakin's mind should have been where it belongs. Everyone knew of his trials and tribulations, it comes with all late-arriving Jedi, but it has been overcome and this case is no different.

    Anyone with common sense should know that if you humiliate someone like that, you will get a fight. So either Obi was looking for a fight or he was pretty damn stupid, and I have a hard time believing the latter.

    So, if i went out on the street and said "you will learn your place, young one" to some random guy, i would get shot on the spot?

    And i seriously doubt Anakin would go Jet Li on his Master in any way, he would probably just take it in and go cry about it later.
  19. FuzzyRatt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2003
    star 3
    Anakin's mind should have been where it belongs. Everyone knew of his trials and tribulations, it comes with all late-arriving Jedi, but it has been overcome and this case is no different.

    But, Luke seem to do just fine being a late-arriving Jedi. His mind was never "were it belonged".


    So, if i went out on the street and said "you will learn your place, young one" to some random guy, i would get shot on the spot?

    If you did that in South Dallas, yes. 8-}

  20. gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    If he wanted to shut Anakin up, all he had to say was "We'll discuss this later, Anakin." "You will learn your place, young one" was just degrading, mean, and cruel.

    Actually anakin undermines his Master's authority a couple of times in that scene before Obi says "You will learn your place young one."
    Obi says they're here to protect her, not to start an investigation, Anakin immediately contradicts Obi with : "We will find out who's trying to kill you"
    Obi reminds him about their mandate which leads to Anakin's "Why?" which shocks everyone.
    Obi couldn't allow such disrespect, he had to make sure Anakin got the message. If Anakin thought he was smart enough to argue with his Master in public then he shouldn't be surprised if his Master puts him right in public.

    This obviously isn't the first time Anakin does this (see the screenplay). It's a funny scene tho, he's trying to impress Padme but it all goes wrong, I love it when he says "Why?" and they all stop and look at each other.
    I think Obi was pretty fair with him in that scene, he gave Anakin enough chances to stop it before he put him in his place.

    Anakin is pretty cocky right from the beginning, obviously certain skills come easily to him and he thinks he knows it all, but he doesn't.

    Poor Ani , even Padme humiliates him later on in front of Q Jamiela.

    g
  21. DS615 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2003
    star 4
    Obi-wan is very restrained in this scene. Anakin is acting "tough" in front of Padme, trying to impress her. Obi-wan shut him down with "you will learn your place". He could have said much worse, or done much worse.
    Anakin is the student, and Obi-Wan the teacher. If Anakin was allowed to do or say anything he wanted, without fear of consequence, well he may just wind up slaughtering people and crushing the entire galaxy under the weight of an oppresive dicatorship.
    Oh, wait.....

  22. Depa Billaba Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 1998
    star 2
    anakin_girl: For what? Trying to do the right thing by finding Padme's killer? If you remember correctly from the rest of the film, Anakin was right--and Obi-Wan did end up going off to investigate after all.

    If you disagree with your master, what you need to do is tell your grievances to your master in private, convince him that you're right and he's wrong, and then let him to do the talking. If your master is being bone-headed and won't listen, then what you need to do is go through the proper channels, talk to the right people (the Jedi Council or somebody who has more authority in the situation than Obi-Wan), convince them that Obi-Wan's being unreasonably stubborn, and let them grind the details into Obi-Wan's brain.

    What you should NOT do is contradict your master in front of your girlfriend, and then when your master contradicts you, contradict him all over again! That not only undermines your master's authority in the situation, it also makes him say (perhaps harsh) things to you to make you realize your place.

    Anakin, as an apprentice, does not have the authority and should not have contradicted his master. If Obi-Wan had slapped him, he would still have been completely justified, because Anakin should have known better than to challenge Obi-Wan in front of Amidala and company.

    Depa Billaba
  23. Guinastasia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    If Anakin is half as mouthy a teenager as I was, then he deserves to be smacked. Just like I was.

    Obi-Wan is trying to teach him the concept of humility-Anakin IS way too cocky-like most guys his age, and needs to settle down a bit.

    And yeah, he got majorly burned in front of Padme, but then, he should have disagreed with Obi-Wan in PRIVATE.

  24. Jabba-wocky Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    In the particular scene cited, Anakin did need to be put in his place. These weren't normal student/teacher, parent/child arguments. It had left the context of any particular issue (which is what Luke would whine about). Instead, they were a series of personal attacks against Obi-wan's character and position.

    Blind obedience might be stupid, but he's in an organization where he follows order. Public insubordination is intolerable. Imagine if while, for instance, General Abizaid was giving a brieifing on the situation in Iraq, a young private ran onscreen, grabbed the microphone, and directly contradicted him? You don't think that soldier would be reprimanded?

    That's essentially what Anakin did. He went in front of Padme, who, as a Senator, represents the body to whom the Jedi are responsible, and challenged Obi-wan openly and without fear of reprisal. That sends the following messengers to the Jedi's overseers: their is no discpline, we have little control over our students, we are not afraid to flout the law. That would doom the Jedi for sure, if that perception were maintained. So yes, Obi-wan did condemn Anakin's insubordination. Because he had some axe to grind with Skywalker? No. Because it was a public situation, and he had a responsibility to make sure that the Jedi were properly represented. Although I sympathize with Anakin, its his fault for creating that situation anyway.

    And it's not as if he did to just Obi-wan. He did exactly the same thing on Naboo, trying to assert authority over both Amidala as a Senator and the entire Naboo cabinet. Padme better have put him in his place then too.

    So in conclusion, for the most part, he brings all of this on himself. He challenges people publicly, and so he gets condemned publicly in turn. All your couner-examples have been private in nature, and so a whole different ball game applies.
  25. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    He had no right to go giving off promises he had no clue if he could keep.

    He had every intention of keeping that promise, in spite of any BS that the Council might have handed down.

    Jeez, you're acting like Obi-Wan told him to **** off or something.

    He might as well have told him that. For all practical purposes, he took out his lightsaber and slashed at Anakin's waist, cutting him down to about an inch.

    Would you want someone talking to you that way, humiliating you, when all you were trying to do was the right thing for a girl you cared about?

    OBI-WAN WAS THE MASTER, ANAKIN WAS THE PADAWAN.

    So what? ANAKIN WAS ENTITLED TO AN OPINION. Obi-Wan shouldn't have treated him like **** for having one. It's like chauvinistic men treating women like they aren't supposed to think or have opinions, but are just supposed to stand in the back and keep their mouths shut like good little women. [face_plain]

    The Jedi are the best and the most precise in the galaxy, and they are not about to let that slip through. Decipline is a key factor in success. If you don't like it, go have a talk with Lucas. See what he has to say about that. Maybe he'll edit the whole saga.

    Stop pretending you have the inside scoop on what Lucas is thinking--you don't. Get over it.

    Have you ever considered that the reason the Jedi fell--the reason Lucas had them fall--was because they were too robotic, too non-human, too insensitive?

    No, I suppose you'd rather blame Anakin, because of course, Palpatine was innocent too. Palpatine didn't do anything wrong--it was only Anakin. I know how you Anakin-haters think. [face_plain]

    Anakin had no real knowledge of human feelings, so he just took it that he loved her when he had no real thoughts on what love is.

    And you do?

    I've been married ten years, been with him thirteen. I know what love is. Anakin loved Padme.

    For ten years, all that crossed Anakin's minds was "i wish i was with Padmé right now". When he came back and met her later, it was 'intoxicating' because he overexaggerated everything in his head for those long years. When they find themselves together, you see the spots are switched. Padmé feels safe with Anakin, and she takes that as her version of love. My point is made.

    Where do you get off thinking you know what's inside these characters' heads?

    Why is your opinion the one we're supposed to accept? Are you Lucas?

    But no, the Jedi treat the youngings in no way like slaves.

    Stealing them from their parents as infants wasn't treating them like slaves?

    They care for them and provide everything they will possibly need.

    Except concern and praise, which is why Anakin had to go to Palpatine for this. He wasn't getting it from the Order.

    And the Jedi are not slaves of this ancient religion of the Order.

    "You have made a commitment to the Jedi Order, a commitment not easily broken."

    Translation: If you fall in love with Padme, you're screwed.

    Anakin's mind should have been where it belongs. Everyone knew of his trials and tribulations, it comes with all late-arriving Jedi, but it has been overcome and this case is no different.

    BS.

    Anakin's mind should have been wherever the hell he wanted it to be. If the Jedi didn't enslave members of their Order, who the hell were they to tell Anakin what he is and is not allowed to think about? That's worse than slavery--that's fascism. That's the thought police of Communist Russia.

    And there were no other late-arriving Jedi, that's why they couldn't decide whether to train Anakin or not. If there had been others, they wouldn't have hesitated--they would have said, "Oh, we trained So-and-so starting at age 10 and he turned out alright."

    And his trials and tribulations were a hell of a lot different than any other Jedi--he was a slave, he knew his mother. He wasn't like the other Creche initiates stolen from their parents. They knew this, and chose to say "Forget about
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