I would smack Anakin upside the head if i was Obi-Wan!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa, Mar 24, 2004.

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  1. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    The odd thing is - in the previous 2 scenes he's been giving all this big talk about how he'll save people from dying and won't fail again , and yet now suddenly he doesn't seem interested in saving Obi Wan.

    He doesn't believe he can, and he is afraid of failure. It's not that he isn't interested.

    You're looking at it logically and rationally and taking Anakin's reactions at face value, and Anakin is not a logical, rational person.
  2. SLR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    Brace yourself, A_G, but I agree w/ you on this one. When Anakin was reluctant to go after Obi-Wan at the end of the movie, it was because he was shell shocked and completely filled w/ self doubt and insecurity. It wasn't because he didn't care about Obi-Wan or wanted something bad to happen. He had just lost his mother, who he was unable to do anything to help. He had also just lost his self-control and had his first touch w/ the darkside in which he slaughtered an entire village. At this point in the movie, he had lost all of his confidence and self-assurance and he had also lost his innocence. He was an emotional mess at this point.
  3. Diamondquill Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2004
    a_g,

    What didn't Obi-Wan do for Anakin? Where didn't he show that he loved him? You know how much Obi-Wan respects the council. You know that he nagged at Qui-Gon all the time to follow the Jedi Council's order. Yet, for Anakin , Obi-Wan stubbornly goes against the council's wishes and argues with Yoda about taking Anakin as a padawan. He could've happily lived his life as a normal Jedi with no troubles of a Padawan, without the feeling that he failed someway in training Anakin (which he didn't by the way), but Obi-Wan trains him and accepts him!

    Well, he didn't do X, Y, and Z, so he must not have really loved him."

    So, you're saying that we think Anakin doesn't love Obi-Wan because he didn't do 'X, Y, and Z things'. And it's so odd that I find you thinking the same about Obi-Wan. He didn't do 'X': tell Anakin that he was like a son to him, 'Y': he didn't put himself in Anakin's shoes, etc.? How odd...

    Just because Obi-Wan didn't do those things, it doesn't mean he doesn't love Anakin. I admit that maybe Anakin did love Obi-Wan. He has a very distracted way of showing it, though.

    Do you notice how distracted/annoyed Anakin sounds when he says the comment?

    I wasn't talking about where he says that Obi-Wan is like a father to him, when he's talking to Padme. I meant when they were chasing after the changling, whatever its name is. Well, if I was in the previous post, now I'm pointing out the other one, so what's the explanation to that?

    Besides, Padme can't get into Anakin's mind. She didn't know why he didn't want to go after Obi-Wan. You may say she loved him therefore she did know. If that's the reason, and Anakin does love Obi-Wan as you say, then why couldn't Anakin understand why Obi-Wan said or did what he said or did like Padme understands Anakin? Perhaps it's because he doesn't love him?

    Just so as you know, I'm not an Anakin-hater. I really like him, as a matter-of-fact. It's just that he's a very arrogant person. HE'S NOT GOD OR PERFECT! I'm simply pointing out the flaws in him. I do put myself in Anakin's shoes, many times. I still find him at fault, though. Just because that's how Anakin feels--frusterated and humiliated--it doesn't mean he has every reason and right to feel that way. His feeling aren't always justified!
  4. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    What didn't Obi-Wan do for Anakin? Where didn't he show that he loved him?

    "You will learn your place, young one."

    That isn't something I say to someone I love.

    I wasn't talking about where he says that Obi-Wan is like a father to him, when he's talking to Padme. I meant when they were chasing after the changling, whatever its name is.

    Ummm...well, yeah, he was distracted--he was flying a speeder at about a zillion miles an hour through midair, trying to keep up with an assassin.

    HE'S NOT GOD OR PERFECT!

    But Obi-Wan is, right?

    And I get tired of people claiming that I think Anakin as "God or perfect" when I defend him, yet these same people act like Obi-Wan walks on water and that we should take a pair of his boots and bronze them and bow down to them.

    He didn't do 'X': tell Anakin that he was like a son to him, 'Y': he didn't put himself in Anakin's shoes, etc.?

    Or Z, treat him like a human being whose opinion matters.


    I find it funny that the Saint Obi-Wan crowd cannot ever be considered biased towards their man, but if I darest think Anakin is right in a situation where he has a conflict with Obi-Wan, I must think Anakin is God.
  5. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Or Z, treat him like a human being whose opinion matters.

    But that's the thing: his opinion doesn't matter. For that matter, neither does Obi-Wan's. As members of the Jedi Order, they are under the obligation to do what the Jedi Council says. It's just like the military (and I'm not saying they're the same thing, I'm simply making a comparison in this aspect): their commanding officers (the Jedi Council) have instructed them to carry out a task, and it is their place as Jedi to obey. If Anakin really felt that investigating who the assassins were was that important, the proper thing to do would be to address his concerns to his commanding officer (Obi-Wan), who could then take it to his superiors (the Council). Doesn't mean they're going to necessarily change their mind, but that doesn't always happen in Earth militaries either. You don't have to like your orders in a military organization, but you do have to obey them. If privates were allowed to do whatever they wanted to do no matter what their superiors said, there would be chaos. And the thing is, if the Council chooses to stick with their course of action, as Jedi who are inferior in rank, it is Anakin and Obi-Wan's duty to obey. If they don't want to, the door is that way, don't let it hit you on the way out. Personal opinions are fine and dandy, but in a military organization they don't mean jack squat unless you can convince your superior otherwise. Also, there is a time and place to express them, and while on duty and in front of your charge is neither. At worst, it's insubordination.

    To translate this back to movie terms: what Anakin wants to do doesn't matter. What Obi-Wan wants to do doesn't matter. What the Jedi Council want to do does. Now, maybe Anakin thinks it's a stupid order, a bad idea, whatever, but as a member of a militaryesque organization (and as a representative of his order in this case) he can take it up in private all he wants, but it is quite simply not his place (not as a human being, but as a Jedi) to do two things: disobey a direct order or question his superior in public.
  6. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    Has everyone flipped their lid?

    Obi-Wan's chiding of Anakin is necessary. If it didn't happen...he wouldn't go "down the dark path".

    Anakin has no feelings because he doesn't exist.

    Anakin g....Its obvious you got a thing for Anakin...and thats cool. I have a major thing for Xena...but I didn't get angry at the Romans for crucifying her...its just a story.

    If Obi-Wan telling Anakin he needs to "Learn his place", upsets you this much...perhaps you should pass on EIII. It'll save you undue stress. :D
  7. Jemmiah Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 5
    "I find it funny that the Saint Obi-Wan crowd cannot ever be considered biased towards their man, but if I darest think Anakin is right in a situation where he has a conflict with Obi-Wan, I must think Anakin is God."

    Funny, but I get the same stuff from the Saint Anakin supporters! ;)

    That said, I think sometimes Anakin and Obi-Wan are their own worst enemies, probably bringing out both the best and the worst in each other.
  8. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    I'm with Devilanse and Jemmiah.

    Seriously, they have to fight, otherwise, the original trilogy won't work.

    They fight like brothers. They ARE like brothers.



    Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go and hang my cat by her toes! Buffy! Stop knocking things off of my vanity!
  9. KosmicKnine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Personal opinions are fine and dandy, but in a military organization they don't mean jack squat unless you can convince your superior otherwise.


    But are the Jedi, at their core, truly anything like the military? Mace himself said that the Jedi weren't soldiers. With Amidala's agreeing to help from the Jedi, do her requests hold no weight? If she asks them to find answers, is she just waisting air speaking to the Jedi? Are they going to do whatever they want regardless of what she says? Are the Jedi a group of people that truly do give up thinking for themselves and only do as they are told? If so, they shouldn't then develop a problem if Palpatine decides to freeze them out and take control of the army from them, they're supposed to do as they're told after all and Palpatine is the head of the government for which the Jedi work.

    Was it Obi-Wan's distrust of politicians that prompted him to be completely unwilling to followthrough with Amidala's request for answers? He didn't, however, have any compunctions about going against their mandate to protect the Senator only when he went jumping through the window after the droid. If their goal, as Jedi assigned to Amidala, was solely to protect her against anything that showed up, they did so. Following the droid and abandoning Amidala in her appartment residence there was exceeding their mandate according to what Obi-Wan had earlier said to Anakin during their meeting with Amidala.
  10. DarthVegas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2000
    star 4
    Unless he realized the attempt failed and that the chances of a second attempt at that moment was as futile as Yoda joining the dark side.

    I mean really, it was just common sense. An failed assassination attempt equals a chance to pinpoint your assassin while he (she, or droid) is in the vicinity.
  11. KosmicKnine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    I mean really, it was just common sense. An failed assassination attempt equals a chance to pinpoint your assassin while he (she, or droid) is in the vicinity.

    And yet still the very thing he yelled at Anakin over, Obi-Wan decides to do. It does make sense for them to try and find out who the assassin is, provided that they can do so and protect the Senator. Anakin tried telling Obi-Wan this, but Obi-Wan would hear nothing of it. Interesting how Obi-Wan changed his mind.

    I feel for Anakin; I wouldn't want Obi-Wan to be my mentor either. I would be so confused being told to do things one way and seeing my mentor do them another.
  12. Jemmiah Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 5
    I've always got the impression that if the situation came to him, as opposed to them actively looking for the assasin, Obi-Wan would then make the most of the oportunity. A bit like Qui-Gon in TPM saying that "a solution would present itself." Obi-Wan wasn't terribly happy with the idea of using Padme as bait but when the assasin droid arrived, he jumped at the chance - literally.

    Same impression I get from the speeder chase. Anakin grapples with Zam. Whilst that's going on, Obi-Wan casually pockets Anakin's saber and lands the crafy almost the same time that Anakin breathlessly runs up to the club. Obi-Wan prefers to let situations occur. Anakin prefers to make them happen. Two different types of people with two different methods.

  13. Knight_Mical Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2004
    star 1
    And yet still the very thing he yelled at Anakin over, Obi-Wan decides to do. It does make sense for them to try and find out who the assassin is, provided that they can do so and protect the Senator. Anakin tried telling Obi-Wan this, but Obi-Wan would hear nothing of it. Interesting how Obi-Wan changed his mind.

    First off, he didnt yell. Secondly it wasnt the same thing. Anakin is promising to do something he doesn't have the authority to do, he's also promising resources and outcomes he doesn't have control over. It's dumb and dangerous.

    Anakin wants to go off and find out who the assassin is. Someone tried to kill Padme a few hours earlier and almost succeeded, in fact they do kill her bodyguard. Therefore the council and Obi-Wan have decided that their primary focus this day is to keep her alive and worry about finding the assassin another day or perhaps not. You have no idea and neither does Anakin what the council is doing behind the scenes. And that's the whole point he doesn't know what he's talking about. The fact that the bomb was planted on Padme's personal spaceship infers that it was an inside job, and for Anakin to be speaking out of turn is really irresponsible.

    What Obi-Wan does is focus in on protecting Padme. The only reason Obi-Wan has to deal with chasing the assassin is because Anakin endangers Padme's life by using her as bait. If the camera's were uncovered it would have been impossible for the droid to cut through the window and put the centipede's in the room in the first place. Obi-Wan then has to deal with the assanine situation Anakin has caused. Therefore being a smart saavy individual he then sees an opportunity and jumps on it (literally). You notice Anakin who sets up the bait doesn't even go after the assassin. How does he expect to catch them if he doesnt chase it. Really really dumb.

    I feel for Anakin; I wouldn't want Obi-Wan to be my mentor either. I would be so confused being told to do things one way and seeing my mentor do them another.

    And I feel for Obi-Wan to have to deal with such an irresponsible, not too bright kid who constantly endangers everyone around him. What Anakin should gain from watching Obi-Wan is that shewdness, prudent and cautious behavior are better than reckless and careless disregard for others opinions and safety.



  14. Slipoka Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2004
    The only reason Obi-Wan tolerates this insolence is that Anakin is believed to be the one who will bring balance to the force, and Obi gave Qui-Gon his word so he is bound to it. Anakin is not unlike any other teen who must have undergone the trials of becoming a Jedi. Only thing is, we all know what happens to this snotty piece of crap... he becomes, well... that point is mute. Anyway just realize that had a normal teen mouthed off that much as a Padawan they would have been lunged through a pane of stransparasteel and thrown off of the Jedi Council Spire to their death. Just kidding.... The young will learn patience.
  15. Diamondquill Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2004
    Going back to the point about Anakin being a jedi and therefore not being able to get into relationships...

    I'm not much of a religion person and I don't know many religions except my own, but I read a book in which it said that Popes are not supposed to marry or have relationships with a woman. Jedi are also like that. When Popes do get into relationsips, they have done something terribly wrong and they don't deserve to be a pope anymore, right?

    Jedi are just like that! Does anyone have an objection to the Pope rule? Then no one should have an objection to the Jedi rule. Anakin actually should've never been accepted as a Jedi. Yet, because OBI-WAN insisted on it, he was. Don't you think that's considerate of Obi-Wan?
  16. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    Jedi are unlike priests (and the Pope) because they are allowed to have sex and such-they just aren't supposed to have attachments, like marriage and stuff.

    I'm guessing "friends with benefits".
  17. Diamondquill Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2004
    Wait, the Jedi or the pope? I'm so confused! Still, the point stays the same. They can't have over-attatchments and neither can the Popes and the priests!
  18. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    Jedi don't have to be celibate, I mean. Lucas said it, I believe it, that settles it. Period.

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