PT If Anakin defeated Obi-Wan at Mustafar

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Brenapp, Jan 3, 2013.

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  1. Klingon Padawan Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 5, 2013
    star 1
    I think he wouldn't have fulfilled the prophecy if he became the Emperor in ROTS. If Anakin became the Emperor, Palpatine would be dead and he wouldn't have tried to kill Luke, which was needed for Anakin's redemption.
    Last edited by Klingon Padawan, Mar 11, 2013
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  2. DARTHSHAME Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    The nail on the head as far as I am concerned. This idea she died due to the will to live is crap. Lucas had to say this so Anakin would not be labeled as a murderer. She was doomed after the force choke. That being said, people can die from broken hearts. It is called Takotsubo cardiomyopathy. It is caused by exceptional and extreme stress.

    If Anakin had defeated Obi-Wan he would not have immediately turned on Sidious. He would have waited until he learned as much as he could and then struck.
  3. Klingon Padawan Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 5, 2013
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    As for Luke and Leia, I think Yoda could rescue at least one of them. If not, then I'm not sure how Luke could have redeemed Anakin if he was brainwashed with the darkside since birth. It's possible that Anakin would never fulfill the prophecy in this situation.
    Last edited by Klingon Padawan, Mar 12, 2013
  4. DARTHSHAME Jedi Master

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    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    Agree. Balance would have completely swung to the Dark side. Anakin would have potentially had the twins, assuming he realized Padme was in labor and got her to a facility to give birth in time. Perhaps Anakin defeats Sidious and then raises the twins as his heirs to rule the galaxy.
  5. Klingon Padawan Jedi Youngling

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    If Yoda rescued one of them, he could have raised Leia (or Luke) to redeem their sibling to turn against Vader, similar to how Luke redeemed Vader, who betrayed the Emperor and turned good in the end.

    I think it may have backfired on Yoda if he rescued both twins, because Anakin would go crazy to find both of his children, (he would probably handle losing one of them), and Anakin would get both of them back.
    Last edited by Klingon Padawan, Mar 12, 2013
  6. Arawn_Fenn Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    That makes no sense. He was already a murderer before that point.
  7. Teaviex Cue Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Off topic, but
    Padme lived if Anakin had not turned.
    The vision was the final warning by the force what would happen if he didn't learn to control anger and stay arrogant.
  8. DARTHSHAME Jedi Master

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    Dec 19, 2003
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    I agree, but the stigma involved with domestic violence has lead to speculation that GL wanted to avoid saying that Anakin was directly responsible for his death. I think many would have preferred it said that Padme died as a result of her injuries, as opposed to saying she died because she lost the will to live. Obviously, Anakin murdered the Younglings and the Separatists leaders, but having it explicitly stated he murdered Padme may have been too much for the audience to digest. This is not only my opinion. A Google search on this issue will demonstrate that this was a prevailing opinion of many people.
  9. Arawn_Fenn Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 2, 2004
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    Well, it's a good thing "many people" have never been wrong before.
  10. I Are The Internets Force Ghost

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    Nov 20, 2012
    star 8
    If Anakin defeated Obi Wan, then the whole galaxy would've been ****ed.
    Valairy Scot and Darth Ibonek like this.
  11. Klingon Padawan Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 5, 2013
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    Unless Anakin could somehow be redeemed.
  12. janstett Jedi Master

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    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    Even if she had lived and/or he kept her artificially alive (as in the Darth Plageuis book where he killed and reanimated his victims time and time again), he had no use for her. He used her as an excuse to acquire power, that's why he choked her in the first place.
  13. Darthbane2007 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2007
    star 4
    No, because he didn't have any of Plageius's or Palpatine's knowledge on the subject...
  14. Klingon Padawan Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 5, 2013
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    Palpatine could have taught him that power if he wanted to, but I think he wanted Padme dead because if she lived, she would be a distraction to Vader.
    Last edited by Klingon Padawan, Mar 16, 2013
  15. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    A point is made in Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, of how Palpatine doesn't know.
    Klingon Padawan likes this.
  16. Klingon Padawan Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 5, 2013
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    Palpatine killed Plagueis before he learned how to get immortality, but that doesn't mean he wasn't ever going to find out the secret. He was studying the darkside, trying to discover the information that his dead master knew.

    In ROTS, Palpatine tells Anakin, "to cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret". This gives me the idea, that even throughout the OT, Palpatine was trying to learn Plageueis's immortality power, and he wanted to pass it onto Vader too.

    Immortality is different from simply saving somebody from death. While Palpatine didn't know immortality, he may have known how to keep somebody alive. I'm not sure which power you are referring to.
  17. Chewbacca89 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    What the kriff? So we can see him cut down children with a lightsaber, but your implying we couldn't see him as the murderer of his wife? Your nuts.
  18. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    Page 140-141
    When he had learned of the marriage, Sidious knew for certain that Anakin's pathological attachment to her would eventually supply the means for completing his conversion to the dark side.

    Anakin's fears for her, in actuality and in visions- and especially after Padme had become pregnant- had been heightened by keeping him far from her. Then it simply had been a matter of unmasking the Jedi for the hypocrites they were, sacrificing Dooku to Anakin's rage, and promising that Padme could be saved from death...

    The latter, an exaggeration necessary for Anakin's turn from what the Jedi called right thinking; for opening his eyes to the true calling. But such was the way of the Force. It provided opportunities, and one needed only to be ready to seize them.


    Implication- "the secret" was of how to save people, like Padme, from death- and his claim that he could do it, was the "exaggeration".
  19. DARTHSHAME Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    I am not nuts. I am only voicing what was mentioned by a multitude of critics who screened the movie. If you do not believe me then look it up. You should learn to read before insulting me. I was merely commenting on the situation at the time. I personally find both actions deplorable for the character.
  20. Chewbacca89 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    @DARTHSHAME
    Ok that probably came out wrong.Sorry. Wasn't trying to insult you. Just saying that premise is nuts. I won't debate you that critics have said that it is just illogical. Either don't have it all (like it seems you prefer) or go all the way.
  21. DARTHSHAME Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    Exactly, why cover up that he killed her by having a vague explanation that she lost the will to live. Just say the man turned evil. He killed children and his own wife.
  22. Chewbacca89 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    Good to know we are on the same page :p
    Sorry again.
  23. Klingon Padawan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2013
    star 1
    I don't think so. It was Anakin's destiny, as the prophecy said so, to bring balance to the Force, which meant destroying the Sith. No matter what, it would happen, even if Anakin himself became the Emperor. The path that the Chosen One took may have been altered, but in the end, Anakin would destroy the Sith.
  24. Arawn_Fenn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    It wasn't guaranteed to happen. I think Lucas said somewhere that in his universe you have the choice to follow your destiny or not. That would arguably become meaningless if your so-called destiny was guaranteed to happen no matter what you did. If, for example, Luke had died around the time of ANH, I don't think Anakin would have destroyed anything.
    rumsmuggler likes this.
  25. rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    If Vader defeated Obi Wan, then he would have eventually grown more powerful than Sidious and would have killed him after learning all he could, like a good Sith should. As far as Padme, his force choke didn't cause her any permanent damage. The broken heart crap was really lame and a cop out ending to what started out as a decent character.
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