If AOTC had been Episode I, would it have been received more favourably?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by DarthHomer, Oct 24, 2002.

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  1. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Hi all. I haven't posted here for a while, because I got depressed by all the basher vs. gusher crap (which I was hoping wouldn't happen this time, like it did with TPM). Things don't seem to have improved much, but I thought I'd brave these waters again anyway. :)

    Anyway, I recently read a review of the AOTC DVD in Empire magazine which I thought was interesting. Here's an excerpt:

    "Here's a controversial theory. If Episode II had opened in May 1999 as Episode I, with a longer story crawl tagged to the beginning - "Old Jedi rescues powerful kid from slavery. Dies." - then it would have received widespread acclaim. Certainly Episode II has its own flaws - a flabby middle, a tepid central romance, some risible dialogue - but the chief crime of this ultimately exhilarating experience seems to have been that it had the temerity to follow-up the frankly dolorous and disappointing Phantom Menace.
    And, to be fair, the critics who apparently found reviewing this unstoppable hit less exciting than Maths homework have a point: two-thirds of the way through the new trilogy, and George Lucas has delivered perhaps two-thirds of a great movie in total. (At least two-thirds of that two-thirds are here). And yet, the myriad pleasures of Episode II are far from incidental. They are of a different order from the timeless thrills of the classic trilogy, but they are also light-years beyond most by-the-numbers blockbusters."


    Now, I think both "bashers" and "gushers" (for lack of better terms) can find something to agree with in that review.
    And I think it raises a very interesting point. Was the goodwill people had towards the saga squandered so much by TPM that critics and disillusioned fans just couldn't sit back and let themselves be impressed by the spectacle and thrills of AOTC? Or was Lucas just trying too hard to please with AOTC, as a reaction to the claims that TPM was slow and boring?

    Let the debate begin . . .
    whostheBossk likes this.
  2. Only_2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 3
    I liked both of them and think most critics are full of poodoo.

    Go figure.
  3. MadMardigan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 4
    I think AOTC would have been received by the SW fan base much better. That's not to say it there wouldn't be bashers. The film does have it's faults.

    Mainstream critic wise, I don't know. probably a little bit. But remember, Aotc as episode 1 would still have the 16 year hype and might just be received the same as TPM.

    There's also the flip side. It's quite possible the TPM disappoinment helped AOTC critically.
  4. Darth-Schwartz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2002
    star 4
    no because people would bitch that aotc not showing anakins life and that the relationship with his mother is unknown. the bashers would scream PLOT HOLE PLOT HOLE!!!!!!
  5. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    I think so, because it wasn't through the eyes of a kid; it was through the eyes of an adolescent. For some reason they wanted it to be just like the OT, where as this trilogy is something new and different.

    Why should Lucas have to re-make the OT again just to please them?
  6. BabaORileyFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2002
    star 4
    No. The hype and expectations would've still clouded people's judgement.

    TPM HAD to be made. I don't care if you liked it or not, but it is an essential part to the SW storyline and saga. Like another poster said, folks and critics would've whined about Lucas not explaining the early timeline of Anakin Skywalker. I'm sure Lucas and company knew very well the potential that a prologue wouldn't be enough to satisfy everyone. But he's simply telling the story he wrote years ago. Now we have the payoff to the setup in Episode II and III.
  7. Ben-Obi-Wan-Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 1999
    star 3
    If AOTC had been Episode I, would it have been received more favourably?
    maybe

    and get an actress instead of the barbie-doll Portman would be also helpfull [face_plain]
  8. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Empire magazine gave TPM a good review when it first came out.

    Go figure.

    Guess it jumped on the "bash TPM bandwagon" too, like many critics who at first liked TPM but soon began slamming it when the backlash set in, so as to not look uncool or something.
  9. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    It's quite possible the TPM disappoinment helped AOTC critically.

    If the TPM disappointment was as big as the media would have us believe, I might agree.
  10. Sith_Mind Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2002
    star 1
    Shelley ~ Empire reviewed the film before they saw it. They based their review on the script and trailer. They had a right to retract or contradict their temporary assessment.

    Besides I've liked many films I can't stand now. I loved The Abyss in 1989 and I think it rots now. I used to feel very passionately about Taxi Driver but I much prefer Scorsese's recent films now. Etc... point is: feelings change.
  11. Darth_Terrell Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2002
    star 2
    "Was the goodwill people had towards the saga squandered so much by TPM that critics and disillusioned fans just couldn't sit back and let themselves be impressed by the spectacle and thrills of AOTC?"

    That may have had a little to do with it. I personally think that many would not allow themselves to like this as much or more than the originals, even if they deserved it. I've always felt no matter how these films turned out, even if they were the greatest films in history, many would lot let them be mentioned in the same positive light as the original trilogy.

    I'll be glad when it's all over, so we want have to listen to the p*ss*ng and moaning by those bashers. I think these films be remembered fondly as time goes by.
  12. Sau-Den Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2002
    star 4
    The only thing that hurt TPM was the hype. NO film could live up to the hype of 16 years, it just isn't possible.

    Every movie, like Star Wars, has its faults. The original (Greedo shooting first, whining Luke Skywalker)empire (C-3PO whining and babbling about every single thing) jedi (the ewoks beating the crap out of the stormtroopers, it was cute when u were 10 but now it's just ridiculous) TPM (Jar Jar, and Jake Lloyd overemphasizing every other word "YOU mean I get to Go with YOU and YOUR STARSHIP!?!") and AOTC (Romance, clunky dialogue)

    So whatever you do there are going to be faults, but when something like TPM, which I actually like, is hyped up for 16 years to be the movie to end all movies, it gets the kind of buzz that it did not live up to expectations, of course it didn't! What could!?!

    Notice even how the critics liked it, if they were found bashing the first Star Wars movie in 16 years they would next be reviewing high school plays in the local paper.

    So you see no matter what you do, whatever film you would've released in 1999, it would have still gotten the same response. Luckily we didn't release AOTC, a movie that's really good, at that time.
  13. Goldenboy62 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2002
    star 2
    Perhaps AOTC would have been more favorably reviewed. It is afterall a better picture. Also it didn't really falsely promote itself in anyway. Think of the promo's for TPM. If you knew nothing before hand (and some of us consciously keep ourselves in the dark so we could be surprised) you would have expected Darth Maul to have a much larger role. I think they knew that was their main selling point, but it backfired. As far as technically superior, there is no question that TPM is to the OT, but the OT had a more cohesive plot for each of its movies. There seemed to be more at stake for the characters in each of the OT movies separately. AOTC also looks better than TPM. The thing to remember about the SFX of TPM is that in 1977 when ANH came out it's effects were pushing the envelop. No one had seen anything like that before! TPM had the benefit of the new tech, but effects laden A & B pictures in 2000 were common. "Been there, done that", audiences wanted more than exotic vista's. They wanted to care about characters, and so far the PT haven't really given us characters we have that same empathy with. Of course some ppl do empathize with these characters, but I don't think the majority of movie goers who see a lot of movies did.
  14. EnforcerSG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2001
    star 4
    Exactly as is (even with a little added in the intro) would have been a bit better than TPM in most critics eyes (and mine) but it still would have been bad. Now, if you let the movie be tweeked a little bit. Maybe change things like Jedi can know their family and stuff like that (so Anakin can come back from vacation or something), fit in Palp's getting nominated and what not...then most certanilly it would have been a better film. And if there was some sort of very good joining of the two films to get the important parts of both in once flick and filter out the less important parts (to the overall story arc), man, it would be the best SW film in everyones mind (keep in mind you would not be missing the films as they are now if they were done that way).

    Imagen if we had a true Episode instead of a prequal and AOTC... oh, that would be so nice...
  15. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    "Besides I've liked many films I can't stand now. I loved The Abyss in 1989 and I think it rots now. I used to feel very passionately about Taxi Driver but I much prefer Scorsese's recent films now. Etc... point is: feelings change."

    Dude, that's just . . . wrong.

    Anyway, great topic!
  16. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    I think it would have been received a little better, but people would have still critised it a lot. Its cool to hate certain things, mostly things that are hyped. The most hated football team in the UK is Manchester United..because they are the most successful, not because they suck [face_plain]
  17. flagg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 1999
    star 1
    Yes. Yes it would.
  18. Goldenboy62 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2002
    star 2
    Sau Den, I think there is a difference between technical faults, consistency faults, and screenwriting faults. A character whining is perfectly acceptable, if that is established as that character' general nature, and the script sufficiently makes the point in a believeable way. Bad acting can be a fault, but it is also a matter of opinion. Chunky dialogue and bad acting are the mind killer, and so are plot holes, or bad science. All of these faults can be fixed if one takes the time to want to fix them.
  19. AAMD11 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    I agree with enforcer!
  20. Ben-Obi-Wan-Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 1999
    star 3
  21. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Perhaps AOTC would have been more favorably reviewed. It is afterall a better picture. Also it didn't really falsely promote itself in anyway. Think of the promo's for TPM. If you knew nothing before hand (and some of us consciously keep ourselves in the dark so we could be surprised) you would have expected Darth Maul to have a much larger role.

    Not really. In the promos I saw, which included the trailers, Darth Maul was barely featured at all.

    I think they knew that was their main selling point, but it backfired.

    No, I think people saw Darth Maul, thought he looked cool, and so figured he'd play a bigger part than he actually did.

    As far as technically superior, there is no question that TPM is to the OT, but the OT had a more cohesive plot for each of its movies. There seemed to be more at stake for the characters in each of the OT movies separately.

    That's because they're set during a different time period--a time of war. TPM was not.

    AOTC also looks better than TPM. The thing to remember about the SFX of TPM is that in 1977 when ANH came out it's effects were pushing the envelop. No one had seen anything like that before! TPM had the benefit of the new tech, but effects laden A & B pictures in 2000 were common. "Been there, done that", audiences wanted more than exotic vista's. They wanted to care about characters, and so far the PT haven't really given us characters we have that same empathy with. Of course some ppl do empathize with these characters, but I don't think the majority of movie goers who see a lot of movies did.

    I don't know for sure but I'd imagine that more people cared about them than you might think.
  22. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    There is also the possibility of AOTC suffering from a "delayed reaction" backlash where people who felt embarrassed about giving TPM a good review when it first came out decided they wouldn't be caught out praising a Star Wars prequel again, even if it was a superior film.
    That's the only explanation I can think of for critics like Roger Ebert and Leonard Maltin giving AOTC a worse review than TPM.
  23. gummi_bear Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 1
    " and get an actress instead of the barbie-doll Portman would be also helpfull "

    I think Portman is far from a Barbie-doll. Physically and mentally. Name one bogus teen movie she did. and as you can see she showed very little skin except for the midriff at the geonosis scene. i don t think anyone else could have better played the role.
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  24. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I actually think it would have been interesting and quite achievable had they taken the last half hour of TPM and turned it into the first half hour of AOTC (just drop references to Padme as queen, the only two SIth lords line to account for Sidious, Maul and Dooku at the same time (which would have been quite cool: the brains, fist and voice of the Sith), and kid Anakin to make the continuity work), where the Federation's blockade of Naboo is the first action of the Confederacy prior to all out war.


    >>I loved The Abyss in 1989 and I think it rots now.<<

    Ever seen the special edition? Turns the lacking theatrical version into a fantastic movie, one of my all time faves ::)
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  25. RevengeofDahveed Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2002
    star 2
    well ive been making a similar point as the Empire article for the last year. The relatively few crucial elements of TPM couldve easily been handled in AOTC's opening scrawl and some minimal expository moments during the movie.

    i watched much of TPM the other night on fox, and i still cant believe how utterly stupid that movie is. the last 40 minutes in particular are so cringe-worthy that i had to change the channel for a few seconds. i mean, the good guys win the battle due to a combination of clumsiness, stupidity, and plain dumb luck. Jar Jar accidentally wiping out one droid after another is unfortunately a perfect metaphor for the entire movie.

    sorry, off topic, i know. sigh

    oh, and i think i can speak for more than just myself when i say that no one who was old enuf to see the OT in the theaters ever in their worst nightmares imagined or wished for a prequel movie centered around a generic, 9 year old Anakin. "yippee" indeed.
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