PT If Dooku had killed Anakin, what was Sidious's backup plan?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by RKORadio, Dec 19, 2012.

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  1. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 28, 2001
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    Dooku would only be able to kill Anakin if the latter somehow became distracted and the former accidentally killed him. Dooku wasn't making an effort to kill Anakin as he was Obi-wan.

    "Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."

    --George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 41.


    The only way this doesn't happen accidentally is if Dooku decides to betray Palpatine and kill the boy.
  2. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

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  3. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

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    Love this. That's exactly what that duel was all about. Which of the two was the worthy apprentice of Palpatine, and Dooku failed, hence his death.
  4. Bazinga'd SWC/PT/ Spinoff Manager -Destroyer of Spam

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  5. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

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    What's this warning of double posting? You can't post twice in a row on a thread?
  6. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    No, you can't. There is a brief window where you can edit your posts. Once that has expired, then you can post a second post back to back with your last one. Like a half hour later or so. You had three minutes between posts and that was enough time to edit your first post and add any additional thoughts you have.
    Bazinga'd likes this.
  7. Bazinga'd SWC/PT/ Spinoff Manager -Destroyer of Spam

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    ^ This. There is now a window of one hour to edit your posts on this forum.
  8. ObiAlKenobi Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 10, 2012
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    Dooku's advanced age would not stop him from carrying out his duties. Even without his Jedi powers, he would still be a very effective commander (General Lee anyone?). He has proven to be quite spry and effective in taking down Obi-Wan and Anakin in AOTC, as well as his position in ROTS.
  9. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    True, age was never an issue for Palpatine which is why he had no trouble recruiting him. In terms of strength in the Force, Dooku was quite sufficient. But he's lacking behind Anakin and Palpatine. Something that Palpatine wants to rectify and why he set up the fights that he did.
  10. Sariel2005 Jedi Master

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    Jun 10, 2014
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    I guess Palpatine was reasonably confident in what was going to happen.
    FWIW the novelisation gives us insight into what Dooku thought was the plan, and he was supposed to throw the fight and get captured. So killing Anakin was probably unlikely.
  11. Deltron3030 Jedi Knight

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    Jul 22, 2014
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    Heavily influenced by the Darth Plagueis book, I believe both Sith are constantly looking to replace the other.

    So when Yoda said, "always two there are -- a master, and an apprentice", that isn't true.

    Always four, there are - - the master, the master's secret apprentice to replace his current apprentice, the current apprentice who wants to become the master, and the apprentice's secret apprentice.

    Sidious was already looking to Anakin's career as a 9 year old, just after losing Maul. I'm sure he was already stoking Dooku by the events of TPM and had him in the batter's box ready to go.

    What's surprising is that Sidious waited 20 years to replace Vader with Luke. Even including "Force Unleashed".
    Last edited by Deltron3030, Jul 30, 2014
  12. Seagoat Force Ghost

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    There were no better than Vader until Luke came along. Luke has all the raw potential Anakin had since birth
  13. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

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    The reason Dooku wouldn't work is because the public already despises him from the get-go as he is the leader of the Seperatists. At the beginning of the Empire, Palpatine still had to tread lightly. Dooku as his enforcer would only raise eyebrows and cause mistrust within the ranks, that would ultimately undermine him. Plus, Dooku being there would go against his propoganda that the Jedi controlled the war through Dooku. If the Jedi had to die for controlling the war through Dooku, why would Dooku be allowed to alive, much less be Palpatine's enforcer? And even if he was forgiven, why WOULD he serve Palpatine?
    darth ladnar likes this.
  14. Deltron3030 Jedi Knight

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    ^ So the Emperor went with the fan-favorite Darth Vader instead? That's not treading very lightly.
  15. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    No one really knew who Vader was. Tarkin is about the only one who did. Vader was more aggressive but that fit fine with what Palpatine wanted. The Inquisitor was used for more subtle actions and in the old EU, Palpatine had several other Force trained assassins to handle things that Vader was too visible to do.
    darth ladnar likes this.
  16. Django Fett Jedi Grand Master

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    There was no way Dooku could beat Anakin once it got to one vs one, Anakin had progressed in the time since their duel on Geonosis so much that the only person who believed he could beat Anakin was Dooku himself. Anakin might not yet have been able to produce Sith Lightening but in everyother perspective he was far and above much more powerfull than Dooku by the time the met aboard Grevious' ship.
  17. Sariel2005 Jedi Master

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    Not sure about that. the novelisation at least suggests that Anakin had to use the Dark Side to beat Dooku. As to what would have happened. Well at first I was inclined to go with the novelisation, that Dooku would allow his own arrest and denounce the horrors of Grievous but.... No that makes no sense since he cannot be captured that way. Sidious would doubtless keep Dooku as his apprentice and allow for some sort of rescue of the chancellor.
  18. DarthMaulFTW Jedi Knight

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    Aug 2, 2014
    I doubt Sidious had a back up plan as he seemed overly confident that Anakin would kill Dooku and so would not even think about a back up if things turned sour.
    Django Fett likes this.
  19. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

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    Dooku wouldn't have killed Anakin. Palpatine would have stepped in if Dooku started getting the upper hand. He wanted Anakin. Dooku was doomed the moment Anakin set foot on the Invisible Hand.
    Django Fett likes this.
  20. mes520 Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 3, 2012
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    Well Sidious had long (correctly) calculated Anakin would win. If not he probably would have kept Dooku for the time being.

    But his true backup probably would have been to seize Anakin and Padme's unborn child(ren) who would have taken Dooku's place when they were older.
  21. redlightning Jedi Master

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    If Anakin is killed, he will arrange for Dooku to be replaced and eliminated another way and find another Jedi to betray the order. It's that simple.
  22. Django Fett Jedi Grand Master

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    Thats interesting, Palpatine left Anakin's initial training to the Jedi. Was that because he would be vulnerable on his own with just a young apprentice? Probably not so much as he was still only known as a Sith Lord to a few people. So if Anakin was defeated by Dooku and Palpatine was to take Anakin's children as his apprentice's he would at least either need to keep things in the Senate and Jedi Council as they are for lot longer and/or keep Dooku.

    But i seriously doubt Palpatine ever believed Anakin would lose, he allowed him to be trained by the best Jedi whilst secretly planting the seeds for his eventual conversion to the Sith.
  23. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

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    Having Anakin with the Jedi was a boon of good fortune for Palps. It gave him a direct link to the enemy. When he managed to force Anakin into the Council, it was almost like the destruction of the Jedi Order was handed to him. He manipulated Anakin into a state of paranoia and mistrust of the Jedi while ensuring he was in their inner circle. It couldn't have worked out better, everything was laid out perfectly.
    darth ladnar likes this.
  24. Darth_Magus Force Ghost

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    Apr 25, 2002
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    Give me one example of Anakin showing power superior to Dooku in the films.

    Winning a lightsabre duel through technique is not superior power.
  25. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Palpatine didn't have the time to train Anakin and he would draw too much attention if he simply eliminated Obi-wan in order to get the boy. So he let Obi-wan do a lot of the hard work while he used Dooku for what he needed. And as we saw in both cartoon series, Anakin was goaded into fighting with his aggressive feelings.



    Last edited by darth-sinister, Aug 3, 2014
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