CT If Endor were the Wookies' Home Planet....

In an interview, George Lucas said that the original plan for Endor was for it to be the home planet of the Wookies. According to Lucas, this was revised (supposedly) because he wanted an indigenous species with primitive tech, and since Chewbaca was proficient with technology, it would be confusing. *cough merchandising ewoks*

Anyway, if this original plan were kept, how would that affect your rating of ROTJ?

Would it be your new favorite? Would you rank it lower?

 

i doubt it would affect it for me.

 

Personally, I love the idea of it being a Wookiee planet. And they could still be relatively primitive. Maybe Chewie was unusual for his kind, and decided to leave that life behind to go out into the galaxy. Like those Amish kids that leave and never come back. Perhaps that life choice is frowned upon in his culture, which makes it awkward when they all go back there and need help.

Anyway, there's several reasons why I love this idea. First, the Wookiees would've have come across as a much more formidable opponent. Ewoks defeating the Empire seems laughable. The Wookiees? That seems more plausible--plus, Lucas could still keep his primitive vs. technology idea.

Second, it would've been a nice opportunity to develop Chewie's character a little bit. He could've played a nice part in getting the Wookiees to help. Perhaps we could also begin to understand why he left (I mean, seriously? As it stands, the closest thing we have for "character development" for him is "The Holiday Special" and that's just WRONG). I'm not saying you have to turn it into this whole subplot, but a scene or two would've done the job fine. Also, it gives Chewie a decisive contribution to the war effort, as opposed to just helping out Han with whatever he does. You know?

And finally, and this goes along with my first reason, I guess, but I just find the Wookiees much easier to take seriously. Ewoks are teddy bears. Kid stuff. Wookiees, while endearing, can also be intimidating warriors when it comes down to it. And you still get kid appeal, without turning off the adults (after all, I LOVED Chewie when I was little. And I still do. The Ewoks? They lost their appeal as I aged). And as ROTS proved, the Wookiees made for a great battle sequence.

So, yeah, if the Wookiees had substituted for the Ewoks, I think my opinion of ROTJ would've gone up considerably. It'd probably still rank third, but not so distant a third as it ranks now.

 

It's true. The first draft of ANH bears this out as the Wookiees weren't very tech savvy when they were recruited to fight during the third act. When he broke the first draft into three parts and save the Wookiee battle for later. Lucas decided that since he wasn't sure if he could do three films, that he wanted Chewbacca in at least one film and would become technologically proficient and that the Wookiee race would have to be as well. That's why you see the Ewoks without high end technology. When he did TPM, he had the Gungans be more proficient, but still nowhere what the Wookiees were.

 

It would completely ruin the point of having primitives winning over an army more technologicaly advanced and made ROTJ more like Rambo II.
And i don't like Rambo II

 

How so?

 

Wookies are technologically advanced.
Wookies VS Empire = typical pew-pew

 

Are all humans technologically advanced? The Amish?
Maybe Chewie is a one of a kind like Yanksfan said in post #3.

 

Humans as a species in general are technologically advanced (compared to Ewoks anyway).

Lucas would need to establish individual cultutres amongst the Wookies to establish different tech-levels, which would take away from point of the story. (and this wasn't done for any other species in SW anyway in the movies. All are treatedas a single ''community'' with x level of tech or traditions or etc.)

Is Chewie extra smart then? Why? Just because?

P.S. Kids love the Ewoks and the Gungans. Adults are not the only target audience.

 

It's simpler for the story to just introduce an entirely new species. Otherwise you have to waste time explaining the differences between Chewbacca and the other Wookiees.

It's also more surprising for the Ewoks to turn out to be formidable warriors. If they were Wookiees, we'd take that as a given, because they'd all be tall and strong like Chewbacca.

The Ewoks also allow for more clear symbolism. Chewbacca represents something different than what the Ewoks represent. So if you made the Ewoks Wookiees, you'd have Chewbacca representing one concept, and then a bunch of nearly identical Wookiees representing an entirely different concept. It makes things more muddled than they have to be in a space fantasy story where you can introduce new types of aliens at will.

 

"David vs Goliath" springs to mind - David is short, Goliath is tall. David unarmoured, Goliath armoured. David's weapon is natural - a rock, Goliath's is manufactured - a sword....

 

The earliest concepts of ROTJ's climax featured Had Abbadon (Imperial Capital, think proto-Coruscant) instead of a second Death Star, and Kashyyk instead of Endor. If it had stayed that way, ROTJ would probably be a perfect movie.

And it would so easy to explain why Chewie was more advanced than other Wookies. All you'd need was a throwaway line where Han mentions how he took Chewie in and taught him how to fly the falcon or something along those lines. Boom, the audience gets it, now we can move on.

Heck, if George Lucas was really so gung ho about the nature vs industry thng, then he could have used the Wookie setup to show that a primitive culture could still be "corrupted" by technology. Not saying that's what he should have done, but It's a thought.

Overall I think it's a little odd to think that the Wookies would have been too "complex" for Star Wars. Not trying to poke fingers or anything, but many of the people here who are defending the simplicity of the Ewoks are also the people who would rush to tell you about the endless nuance of other parts of the Star Wars saga. Star Wars has always had a ton of nuance, beginning with ANH. It's fun first and foremost, but it's never been anti-intellectual, or afraid of letting people read between the lines.

 

Yeah. It's never explained how Chewie and Han met. How hard could it be? Give 1 or 2 lines like HB said and problem solved. Not that hard at all.

 

So, if i told you i took a chimpanzee or a dog (aprox. level of intelligence of Ewoks or Wookies had they been in their place as i see it) and taught him engineering and flying a spaceship you would buy it?

 

How many dogs or chimpanzees do you know of that make spears and build treetop villages, have their own religion, and are capable of understanding storytelling? The Ewoks are clearly meant to be on a pretty human level in terms of biological intelligence. They are merely a very primitive culture, much like the small pockets of ancient tribes that still exist on earth today. Heck, ROTJ even shows them briefly taking over and using Imperial technology.

 

And they make working gliders - mustn't forget those.

 

Which all goes back to Lucas's views on the Vietnam War, where despite the more technologically advanced and sophisticated military, the Vietnamese wound up pushing back against the US and kept them from winning the war.

The Amish aren't. They shun most modern technology. Any that is used is mostly for safety purposes, like turn signals on the buggy. No phones, no electricity, no motor cars. Not a single luxury. Like Robinson Crusoe, as primitive as it can be.

 

There's a difference between nuance and unnecessarily muddled symbolism. Give me one good reason the Ewoks should have been Wookiees, other than the fact that they aren't "badass" and "cool."

You could use those lines for something else instead. You only addressed one of the reasons I gave, too.

 

Chimpanzees using tools is observed, but ok, scratch that.
I see them more like Neandertals and i still wouldn't buy it.
But that is just me and i can deffinetely see a point in what you said...

That said...these pretty much cover it, imo.

 

I was responding to HB. Not you. No offense.
It ties the two together. How is that not important if they went that route?
1 minute of dialogue is going to impact the movie that much?
How long were they in the Ewok village? How is that any different?

Or have the Wookies be slaves and beaten down. The Empire is so certain that the fight has been squashed out of them, that they are surprised when they do rebel.

 

If it's one minute of dialogue--or even five seconds--that could have been spent doing something else, why waste the time unless you absolutely have to? These are extremely fast-paced, tightly constructed movies. They shouldn't have to stop for explanation unless it's absolutely crucial to the plot--and the Wookiee thing only becomes crucial to the plot if you decide to make them Wookiees in the first place, which there's no good reason to do! People like to watch things happen, not hear things get explained.

And it doesn't matter if the Wookiees are slaves and beaten down. They're still big and strong. We already know Wookiees can fight stormtroopers and operate heavy machinery--that's pretty much Chewbacca the Wookiee's sole plot function, after all. The simple fact is that it wouldn't defy anybody's expectations, or make nearly as strong a point as a society of primitive, diminutive teddy bears rebelling against a high-tech army of "badass" Nazi stormtroopers. The very fact that you have such a problem with the way the Ewoks were used in the movie proves that they did their job, and did it well.

The Imperial military got utterly humiliated by a pack of vicious teddy bears, and it was glorious.

 

ROTJ would more than likely still be my favorite SW film but I like the idea of the Ewoks more than not having them.

The Ewoks are no different than the Wookiees or any other alien species in SW, though. Never once did I think their presence or their takedown of the Empire was silly. It's more impressive. They're just shorter and cuter. We wouldn't be having this conversation if it was Yoda's species.

 

There are some things people can't seem to get over and this is one of them. The idea with Wookiees was abandoned before TESB hit cinemas, for very obvious reasons and this was far more symbolic.

 

Actually, I think we would. Yoda species as not a Jedi can barely cross a room.

 

Mod edit: You've been warned before about this - don't drag such 'bashing' issues into a thread where they don't exist.