Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Jcuk, Mar 31, 2013.
No, I included AOTC and ROTS.
Just because you know a few people, doesnt make it the law, just as I can name 3 of my nephews who all grew up AFTER TPM was out in theaters, and after watching all 6 movies, they like the OT more. I'm sure someone can chime in with a few people they know and will say something else.
[/quote]I'm of the opinion that if you tell them the PT is bad, and that everyone hates it, they will conform to a stereotype.[/quote]
Totally disagree. Once people get older, they will form their own opinion of a movie and that will overrule what anyone has told them when they were kids. When I was growing up in the early 80's (before the days of Home Video), the only way I saw these films were on Cable and HBO or the ABC Sunday night movie of the week. As a kid, I loved Superman II over Superman I, I loved Rocky II, III, IV over Rocky I, I loved Return of the Jedi over Empire Strikes Back. As I got older and became more mature, I appreciated different things in these films and realized I was wrong: Superman I is WAY better then Superman II, Rocky I is far superior then its sequels, and Empire is light years better then Jedi. When I was a kid, I found Rocky I to be boring, Empire to be too dark, and Superman I beginning was too slow, as I got older I realized that is why those fiilms are great.
You weren't wrong when you were younger. You just appreciated different things. Whether or not you like a film better has a lot to do with what criteria you judge it by.
I think, for the most part, Lucas crafted the PT so that they can be viewed before the OT, but not in such a way that they must be. For example, there are nods to the OT -- as you point out -- which I think Lucas included for those who had seen the OT first (90% of the audience). Equally, though, these serve the same purpose to those who watch the PT first, then the OT, then the PT -- they can view these "nods" with new eyes.
The effects, again, force Lucas to make the PT one way or another as there's an in-universe explanation for why a lot of the tech looks more dated in the OT.
Lucas also does some things -- such as not showing the entry into hyperspace from the cockpit -- that is no doubt meant for the PT-first crowd. If you saw the OT first, there's no reason not to include the streaking stars. But if you see the PT first, this becomes a unique moment for the OT. So I think it could go either way.
But really, the simplest solution to the OP's question is this:
Why not just let the new viewer decide?
Tell them Episodes IV, V, and VI were made first but tell them that the story begins chronologically in I, II, and III. And then let them decide. Don't commentate on what they are viewing -- let them experience it the way they chose to. It seems fair enough to me.
Mod edit: No personal attacks, particularly completely unprovoked ones.
It's hit or miss, my wife liked Episode III and V the most and thought II and IV were kinda boring. So it's just luck of the draw as to what to introduce them to first.
I so agree with this!
3 out of the four people that I mention knew this and had that option. The forth one (20 somethings female) knew but didn't have a choice because she first saw the Saga in marathon screenings and our local film club. (don't do marathons with SW virgins, its sensory overload! ) But the other ones knew this information and they all chose to watch it numerically.
And the most important thing is to NOT COMMENTATE! I have my own prejudices about some of the films or sequences but I won't spoil someone else's enjoyment because of that.
I would say the PT. No offense, but that's the way I saw it and I liked it that way. Vader's redemption means a lot more to the viewers in that order.
I introduced a friend of mine to Star Wars, and I let her pick a trilogy. She couldn't understand why anyone would watch something out of order, release dates or not. She picked PT.
I do think that watching the OT first also has it's benefits, but I don't know if I would choose to do it that way.
Does your friend not watch many movies?
That, imo, is part of the problem with the PT as we have them: the "wow" factor - they don't visually speaking, LOOK like 'PREquels'. Like some have said, they look like sequels made years later, Lucas 1-6 viewing preference or 'intention' notwithstanding.
The fact is, according to ROTJ producer Howard Kazanjian - from a 2005 interview - the plan back in the early 80's when discussing the prequels and their visual look, using the world war analogy, is that the CT (ie, OT 1977-1983) is like World War Two, whereas the PT visuals/technology would be like say, World War One. Instead, what ended up happening, according to Kazanjian, was that the PT as Lucas made them....wound up looking like World War FOUR.
1-6 my kids 3 and 6 love them in that order, my 3 year old son says in ANH..."look daddy, its only Anakin" ( i obviously tell them he is very naughty particularly in certain ROTS scenes.... 1-6 is the story!!!
1-9 is the story now!
I would say 1–6 for the best experience.
I say start with the PT first then the OT
But Vader's redemption will be gone once the ST is released, as the overall story arc will change now to a broader look at the galaxy and 3 generations of Skywalkers. I hate to break it to you but your Vader redemption viewing order is so 2005....
The viewing order post 2015 will probably be 45367 with 1 and 2 as optional Vader back stories. (Assuming that the big story GL really meant to tell, (and he really means it this time,) was the story of how balance was restored to Da Schwartz or some other shoehorned nonsense.
I actually think the new order will be 4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3. The 4-9 arc will most likely be Luke's full arc and the PT will be a good back story to the OT & ST.
Actually, this will probably turn out to be accurate. I threw 3 in Machete style out of habit.
Honestly release order is the best and the way it's meant to be (no matter what GL says). Machete order is cool but I think it's better for a rewatching than for introducing someone to the series. Watching 1-6 seems like the most logical but so much of the PT is riffing and calling back to the OT and that's all lost on the viewer if you watch the PT first.
3 and 4 too close together is pretty jarring on a number of levels, technological and narrative-wise. Any SW experience should begin with the iconic ANH opening scene IMHO. ROTJ is kind of in the mould of the PT in some respects, so flows on nicely from it. Because of all these factors, I've long been a fan of 451236.
4, 5, 6, 4, 5, 6.
Seriously, 456 and then 123.
I still don't see why this is even debated -- just let the person you are showing the films to decide. You don't need to give your opinion of the films, just tell them that Episodes IV through VI were made from 1977 to 1983, that Episodes I-III were made from 1999 to 2005, and that Episodes VII through IX will be made from 2015 onwards.
Then, tell them that the story, chronologically, flows from I through IX. It's that simple.
People aren't stupid -- they'll be able to make up their own mind on which they prefer.
As for me, I'd prefer it prequels first (since that's how I saw it) and I suspect almost all of us will pick the order we originally saw them in. But anyone we show them to is perfectly capable of choosing.
Yeah, I wouldn't say anything more than "you should check out Star Wars." I don't expect that people should be exposed to something in the exact same manner that I was.