''If it would've been your mum . . .''

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Obi-Zahn Kenobi, Aug 18, 2004.

?

''If it would've been your mum . . .''

Poll closed Mar 22, 2012.
"Wipe them out. All of them." 132 vote(s) 59.5%
"No women. No children." 44 vote(s) 19.8%
Left them alone. 22 vote(s) 9.9%
Killed the women and the children, but spared the men. 3 vote(s) 1.4%
Killed the men and the women, but spared the children. 9 vote(s) 4.1%
Killed the children, but spared the men and the women. 2 vote(s) 0.9%
Killed the women, but spared the men and the children. 1 vote(s) 0.5%
Committed suicide. 1 vote(s) 0.5%
Other . . . ? 8 vote(s) 3.6%
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  1. threepio_mania Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2002
    star 3

    Anakin may have been playing by the rule of association. If you know that somebody is suffering, and you know it's individuals from your tribe, your family, your friends, etc. who are causing that suffering, many people will argue that you are as guilty as the actual tormentors for your negligence of action. It's sort of the idea that simply by lacking ignorance toward a certain wrong doing, you become an accomplice by silence alone.

    What is to say all the Tuskens saw it happen though?

    Plus, women and children? Even if they did know, it isn't like they could stop Tusken Warriors.
  2. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    What is to say all the Tuskens saw it happen though?

    Plus, women and children? Even if they did know, it isn't like they could stop Tusken Warriors.


    I never said I agreed with Anakin, merely attempting to explain how he may have viewed it. And, really, I find it kinda impossible that everyone, except maybe children, would have been ignorant of what was going on. The novel and movie more or less tell us Shmi was there for weeks, and she was quite obviously sequestered away in a specific part of the camp. Not to mention that if Shmi's kidnapping and subsequent torture was part of the "blood rites" ritual Lucas described the Tuskens having, then it was likely very much publicly known.

    And just because you may not be able to stop somebody, it doesn't mean you simply stand back and allow it to happen. By allowing things to continue, particularly by simply turning a blind eye to what their men are doing, the women are actually making things worse. They are not only silently condoning what was being done to Shmi, but they were perpetuating the cycle of violence by passing it down to their children. Now, again, this is not to say that I feel they deserved an execution or that their hands were as blood-spattered as the individuals who actually comitted the act (I don't think the novel specifies if it was just the men, either), but they do have a hand in it, unintentionally or not.

    This isn't to say what Anakin did is right. At the very least, it seems universally agreed upon that he shouldn't have killed the women and children, much less the men. Even he seems to recognize the horror of what he did when he confesses what he did to Padme. This is merely a show of one viewpoint regarding the Tusken slaughter, and not particularly my own, either. (For the record, I think he was wrong for attacking at all. I'm empathetic to his case, but it was still wrong. Revenge, to me, is an utter waste that only continues the cycle of hate. Violence begets violence, after all, and as Qui Gon pointed out to Anakin in the TPM novel, it doesn't fix or change anything.)
  3. starwarsagent Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2004
    star 5
    leave them alone. jedi dont kill for revenge. only as a defense.
  4. DarthNeil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 4
    Is it possable that anakin could have sneaked back out of the camp or would his dead mother slow him down.
  5. Darth_SaberTooth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
  6. JediSara Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2004
    star 5
  7. Jawalord Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2004
    I wouldn't harm the women and children. Call me soft-hearted, but I just couldn't bring myself to kill poor defenseless females and little ones. :(

    But for the males...IT'S SLICE AND DICE TIME!!! MUHAHAHAHA!!!! [face_skull]
  8. Eliante Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2004
    I guess I would have wanted to act like Anakin, but would be so shocked and desperate I`d just cry and scream and perhaps lash about on everyone who happened to be there. I don`t think I`d have enough self-control to truly and effectively harm too many of them. Anakin`s grief turned into determination to take revenge. I do not think mine would. I`d probably get killed myself. Then again, you can never really say what you would do if this and that had happened to you...because it didn`t.
  9. Guardian-Lord Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2004
    star 1
    I would have killed Them all and kill any other Tusken Raider i'd ever see in my life.
  10. DarthNeil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 4
    Also tuskens are evil.
  11. Jawalord Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2004
    You can't call an entire race evil just because their warriors have cruel and barbaric traditions. Humans have a long history of torture and savagery too. Does that mean we're all evil?
  12. DarthNeil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 4
    True Jawalord but this is star wars and not real life. How do you know if the woman and children are not tought how to fight. So anakin my not have had a choice when it came to who he killed
  13. DarthNeil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 4
    You can't call an entire race evil just because their warriors have cruel and barbaric traditions. Humans have a long history of torture and savagery too. Does that mean we're all evil?

    Yes you can, but you could not say travel 200 years into the future and call us evil for things that happend 4000 years ago.

    What happened to anakins mother happened in the presant most of the evil stuff we did happend in the past.
  14. NiktosRule Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2001
    star 4
    I probably would've killed them all. Hopefully I could've kept a sound mind and not killed any of them though. I know I wouldn't have just killed the men and women and spared the children. Your just sparing the children to starve to death in the desert. That is more cruel than killing them in my opinion. If I was going to kill them I wouldn't show any prejudice.
  15. SapphireAD Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2004
    If I was in that situation, I'd most likely leap in there and start hacking away at every Tusken Raider I'd see. Afterwards though, I'd be conflicted because sometimes I'd feel guilty and other times I'd be satisfied.
  16. DarthNeil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 4
    You mean just like anakin was in the film.
  17. mojorising Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2005
    star 1
    I put "other".... he he he.

    I know I'm not alone. Vader's just a spy. I think even when he's a "bad guy" he's a good guy.

    Huh?

    Shut up... what the hell are you talking about.... you have no idea, young one.

    If anybody not just the tuskins but Terrorist or kiddnappers murdered or Executed my mom or friends anybody I love, I sure as hell would kick there ass.

    Wow, you're a brave person. Are you going to go overseas to serve in Iraq? Go and play sports like a good 'lil boy.

    Padmé's not a terrorist, but she plays one on TV. She's very hard to place, that one.

    So is it true that if I kill you, I become you?

    What happened to anakins mother happened in the presant most of the evil stuff we did happend in the past?

    Does Natalie Port..... I mean Padmé, belong to an evil race?

    It's not quite clear is it? But that arguement HAS been made before.
  18. MrC123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2004
    star 4
    I happen to love my Mom. If some bast**** kidnapped her and killed my mother, oh, I'd be messing some people up! I'd do what Anakin did.
  19. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    What happened to anakins mother happened in the presant most of the evil stuff we did happend in the past.

    Turn on the news, it's still going. Wars, torture, tyranny. And there's still plenty of murderers, rapists, paedophiles . Not to mention the sickening inequality of the rich and the poor, how many starved today ?
    It's still going on.

    btw - aotc happened "A Long Time Ago ..." ;)


    g
  20. DarthNeil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 4
    Agree with MrC123 do i.
  21. darthmedium Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2005
    star 1
    Yes, yes.

    Hear you nothing that I say?
  22. theBluePhoenix Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2001
    star 3
    I agree that we cannot say that all Sand-people are bad just because some clearly are. However, that particular tribe who were directly responsible for what happened to Anakin?s Mom deserve to pay for what they did. If I were Anakin, I would have done the same thing. That does not mean that ?I? would do that simply because the world that I live in is very different from the world of Star Wars. For example, Anankin got away with it scott free. If I would do that today, I would be caught, arrested, convicted, and thrown in jail for a long time.
  23. DarthNeil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 4
    theBluePhoenix,

    You say that tuskans as a race are not evil right. Then i say prove it, every time we see a tusken in star wars they are doing something evil. Also in every game that there is of star wars killing tuskans is the thing to do because they are the bad guys.
  24. DarthNeil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 4
    Can no one disprove the fact that tuskans are evil?
  25. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    Depends on what you're definition of evil is and to what extent it's scope is. The Aztec civilization used brutal human sacrifices to worship their gods. The Europeans/Americans/etc. enslaved, murdered, and destroyed the rights of Native and African Americans for hundreds of years. In 1937, Japanese troops invaded the Chinese city of Naking and brutally raped, murdered, and mutilated an estimated 369,366 citizens, while shortly afterwards, Hitler began his genocidal campaign. And that's just in our history. Plenty examples of this kind of violence and brutality exist in the world today and always will. So does that make the entire species evil? Do we measure ourselves by the acts of a few (or many) and then generate an opinion based on that, rather than measuring individual merit?

    The Tusken Raiders are purposefully presented are ambiguously moral for the sole purpose of reflecting the same in Anakin's actions. Both the character and the audience are left with a feeling of uncertainty. Was Anakin's actions justified due to the heinous treatment of Shmi? How will this affect his character in the future? Is this a sign of things to come, or did the emotions of the present demand that such action be taken without future ramifications?

    However, at no such point should the audience feel that the Tuskens are completely evil. We are meant to have a sense of wrongness in what Anakin's doing, as the scene cuts away at one point to show children playing with their parents. When one damning characterization is applied to an entire species, it leads to the creation of conflicts and emotions that birth destructive, speciest/racist forces like the empire. It's what leads to hate and ultimately being consumed by that hate, perpetuating a cycle of violence throughout generations.

    If Anakin kills once in anger, what was to stop him from doing again? Anakin was in pain, and we sympathize with him, but what he did was wrong.


    For example, Anankin got away with it scott free.

    Legally, maybe, but not psychologically. He was obviously torn over what he did, and he has to live with himself from that point on knowing that he's committed murder, however justified he may have felt it to be. There's also the issue of whether or not there would have been "justice" on Tatooine. The Tuskens were a hated people. Many may have reacted positively to what Anakin. Additionally, episode III isn't out quite yet, so we'll have to say whether or not he'll have to answer to the council regarding that issue.
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