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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph "If It's Halloween [...or May, or Sept], It Must Be Saw.": The Saw Saga [Saw XI]

Discussion in 'Community' started by DarkPrince, Aug 14, 2006.

  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    It's certainly his continually evolving backstory and acquisition of apprentices that has kept the sequels together, no doubt.

    In a way, 4+ balances out 1-3 in that 1-3's (particularly 1 & 2) structure needs to keep the audience in the dark over much of John's identity, history and motivations. 4-6 then lets us delve into that.

    But to what end? That's going to be the make or break here.
     
  2. JohnWesleyDowney

    JohnWesleyDowney Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2004


    I gave up after the second one. I thought the concept initially was kind of clever, but two were plenty. I think they've absolutely milked this thing to a ridiculous extent.
     
  3. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I think the series (as a series) really picks up in 3 & 4 because that's when you start to really get the interconnected storytelling and elevation of John's antihero nature to start coming to the forefront.

    I mean, I don't think there's been a single victim or supporting character from one of these films that hasn't been expanded upon into a larger role (or, at least, given some kind of backstory) in the sequels. Really fleshes things out.
     
  4. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Caught a showing on Friday. Overall, I think it ends up being a satisfying conclusion (however, John/Jigsaw is in disappointingly too few scenes (like 2 or 3 at most). Things are wrapped up, but enough elements are still in play so that the series could theoretically continue one day- Gordon being the next Jigsaw could hold some great possibilities, and there's still the two other mystery Pigheads, though I hope they give the franchise a break, otherwise it cheapens this film being presented as "the final chapter".

    The 3D isn't that gimmick-prominent, thankfully (just a few things splattering towards the audience, mostly, and one or two moments in the traps), but is used in a more appropriate way of depth perception (and the hear no evil/speak no evil/see no evil traps do use this to good effect), but it may end up being too subtle for some people, so I wouldn't be surprised if people end up complaining about the "lack of 3D" in the film (but this definitely not a poor "barely any 3D" 3D like Clash of the Titans).

    However, a few reservations (beyond the lack of John) in that the first few traps seemed very arbitrary (almost as if the film was becoming the "just about gore and torture" critique people often incorrectly dismiss these films as), but the second half of the movie recovers and gets more on track.

    Also, this film introduces that there are a LOT more Jigsaw victims/survivors than we previously thought, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. On one hand, it does make for a good story with the profiteering imposter survivor.

    On the other- up until now, each victim has been pretty clearly setup/documented in the flashbacks/backstory of the past 6 films (and, indeed, we even get one or two more of those fleshed out here, albeit briefly), and while we do see 1 or 2 familiar faces at the survivors therapy group, where did all of them come from (or, even, the three in the display window trap that opens the film)?

    When did any of the Jigsaws or apprentices have time to do them? The timespan has been pretty well covered, you know?

    Cary's return really added something to the film- but I think it would have been way more awesome if they had saved him as a surprise (imagine how much cooler it would have been if we hadn't seen his survival in the opening credits or him at the survivor's group therapy, so that his first appearance would be when he took off the mask?).

    Also, I think the scenes with Cary introduce a continuity problem (also disappointing given that that was usually this series' strongest point), because, how could his survival scene have happened where it did? Didn't we see his body in the room in Saw II? (the room couldn't have been cleaned/body replaced, since his foot was still there here).

    And at the end of Saw I, we clearly see Gordon's body is still in the room AFTER Jigsaw wakes up and locks Adam in the room. But here, we see Gordon had escaped before Jigsaw seemingly leaves the room- but even if that isn't the case, and Jigsaw finds him later on after Gordon escapes, what about Adam? He'd still be alive in there. It doesn't seem to add up.
     
  5. Bremaine

    Bremaine Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2010
    The first Saw is by far the best of the series. #2 and 3 were okay, but I stopped after 3 or 4. Just overly predictable and boring. Saw 3D will not change this.
     
  6. Drac39

    Drac39 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2002
    I saw it today and I must say that if you ever were a fan of the series it is a satisfying conclusion.

    Obviously, the highlight of the film is Dr. Gordon's triumphant return. Really if this is the series conclusion it is the perfect way to end it. Dr. Gordon has been the fan's favorite character of the series and we have wanted him back for so long. Cary Elwes is very good when he is on screen and they really make the most of him. Granted I agree with The2ndQuest that his appearance would be all the more satisfying had the placement of his scenes been saved for the ending.

    As for continuity 2ndQuest. The second body in the bathroom belongs to Zep not Dr.Gordon. Dr. Gordon always made it out. The only remaining thing he had was his severed foot.

    My only complaint is that Tobin Bell is basically all but absent from this film. He is the reason the Saw series became such a lasting one.
     
  7. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Yeah, the lack of Bell really kept the film from being great, especially after how John-centric the last one was. I was kinda hoping there'd have been one big, final "His Will Be Done" revelation to complete his assumed role as John the Savior (next to Amanda the Cruel and Mark the Brutal) and fully conclude his story.
     
  8. Drac39

    Drac39 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2002
    I will say though that his introduction at the book signing scene had the theater applauding.
     
  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    "Saw: Legacy" has apparently started filming (some potential spoiler pics at the link).

    No other cast or plot details yet, though. Just crew: Peter & Michael Spierig directing, script by Josh Stolberg & Peter Goldfinger.
     
  10. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    wow. paranormal activity coming out every halloween was the replacement for saw coming out every halloween, right? and now they're scrambling to find the next franchise they can do that with and apparently it ain't the ring cuz they keep pushing back "Rings" and now it's coming out in ****ing february (bad sign), so i guess they figured they better just try to ressurrect Saw
     
  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Or they figured they'd follow in the grand Horror tradition of releasing 6 or 7 main entries in a series followed after a long delay by a spin-off sequel (New Nightmare, Jason X, etc).
     
  12. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Are you kidding, we have a plethora!

    First of all there's Ouija. You know people shouldn't mess with those things!

    Then we have Fear, Inc. which seems like The Game 2.

    And then the one with the best tagline. The Windmill; This isn't hell, this is Holland. It's about a group of tourists who encounter evil in the Dutch countryside (possibly SuperWatto ?). I mean, what's not to like?

    And then on Halloween itself, we have Gehenna, about an old abandoned Japanese Military base.

    One of those is bound to sprout sequels.
     
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  13. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    You have to wait until October 2017 for Insidious: Chapter 4
     
  14. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    This is next to my office:

    [​IMG]

    Come visit!
     
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  15. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    I think i'd rather fancy my chances with Rylo Ken and his future bride, daughter of Ted Bundy.
     
  16. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    All are welcome.
     
  17. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
  18. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Apparently that TV series mentioned above is likely to be based on Spiral.

    [​IMG]

    Spiral: From the Book of Saw (2021)
    Viewing Experience: IMAX (2D)

    “You give a woman six hundred Tuesdays, it ain’t worth three Saturday nights.”

    This spin-off of the Saw franchise presents a different style and feel, with its LA heatwave setting almost being a throwback to films from the late 80’s or early 90’s- though the trap sequences retain the more frantic camerawork and editing consistent with the previous eight films.

    This film, though, is surprisingly more gruesome than the previous 8 films- to the point where the violence and gore of the trap sequences truly do begin to feel gratuitous. That does reflect them serving a different purpose in the story (they are about vindictive punishment, not painful redemption), but it makes this one much more uncomfortable to watch at times and it feels like they could have been left as off-screen events and not affected the story.

    The cast is generally good and the film keeps you guessing at multiple suspects throughout. However, the ultimate villain lacks the charisma of previous Jigsaw killers and apprentices. The performance does get better once revealed, but it’s very difficult to follow a recognizable actor like Tobin Bell with a comparatively unknown performer. Chris Rock keeps things moving through the drama and occasional quips (including a nod to New Jack City), though the film could have used more scenes with Samuel L. Jackson (but when is that not the case?).

    The new motivation and ultimate plan of the villain adds an interesting twist and approach to things, even if it’s not as mind blowing as some previous ones. Oddly enough, its topical aspirations make it work both as a present-day story and as a 90’s-set film homage as far as style goes.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  19. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    So, Bloody Disgusting has an interview with Shawnee Smith (Amanda, but did I really need to tell anybody in this thread that?).

    They talk a little bit about how the convoluted character arc of Amanda was being made up as they went and that it seemingly wasn't all planned from the beginning or even from Saw II and how it was difficult as an actor to just kind of play the moment she was in without always having a lot of context.

    But . . . this is where I nerd out for a hot second and nobody but @The2ndQuest even understands what I'm talking about. There is one question that I've always wanted to ask about Saw III. And I'm going from memory (always tricky with these movies), so I may not have the details correct, but here's my question: "What was up with that letter in Saw III?"

    Late in Saw III, and again, this is all from memory, Amanda gets a mysterious note and she starts weeping. I believe this is right before the shooting starts and Amanda kills the doctor. Now. We don't find out until, I think, Saw VI, what was in that note. It was from Hoffman telling Amanda that he knew she was involved in the crime that resulted in Jill losing her baby. Now in Saw III, Hoffman was in like one scene and I don't think they even revealed that plotline about Jill losing John's baby until Saw IV. And there is no way they knew any of that stuff while they were doing Saw III. Right? So what exactly did they tell her about that note or what was she thinking during that scene? Or did they know? I mean, that would be insane.

    And as a related, more general question, did she actually have any idea what she was doing when she was back for those flashbacks in the post-Saw III movies? Cause that **** is confusing as hell. They talk a bit about the confusing stuff in that interview, but they don't bring up anything past Saw III and I definitely would have if I'd been the one asking the questions.

    ****. I don't even like these movies all that much and I'm this big of a nerd about them. I mean, look, that's when I'll get back on board with this series, when they get back to the kind of Inception level "flashbacks within flashbacks SURPRISE ************ JEFF SURVIVED THE PREVIOUS MOVIE OR WAIT THIS IS ALL BEFORE THAT WHAT wait was Eric Matthews in there the whole time?"
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
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  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    The interwoven flashback material is such a large draw to these films for me, as well. I haven't marathoned the films since the lead-up to VI, I think, so I don't recall the letter details off the top of my head, but I'll keep them in mind next time I do (I imagine that will happen when they officially announce Saw IX/Jigsaw II).

    However, just speculating, but I have to assume the director either gave her information or a theoretical moment to Shawnee to get the desired emotional reaction in that moment, even if they didn't know/hadn't planned what the actual contents of the letter were yet. It's also possible the producers (and, possibly, the director [since he also did IV]) already had ideas of where they were going with things even if they didn't have the specifics down, so they could have provided some kind of broad stroke idea (or provided an aforementioned motivation to elicit the desired response within that framework).
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
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  21. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Random observation, but the franchise is approaching it's twentieth (!!) anniversary in a few years (2024). If they end up doing Saw IX (or, hopefully, Saw IX & Saw X, since there was talk of "Saw X" at some point), they'll presumably want to return to their traditional fall/Halloween release date. However, they're obviously not going to do so when the two Halloween sequels are out there.

    The first of those hits this year and the second next. Which gives them 2-3 years breathing room to decide what they want to do for the core franchise. So, my prediction I want to put down is this:

    2021: Halloween Kills
    2022: Halloween Ends
    2023: Saw IX
    2024: Saw X (or, Saw X: XX Years Later [face_laugh])

    With the caveat that, if they end up skipping to "Saw X" by retroactively counting Spiral as Saw IX, they 2023 will remain empty (barring the timing of the proposed Spiral TV series, which would presumably end up coming out in 2022 or 2023, if it happens).
     
  22. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Shawnee Smith may be returning for the next film, coming out next year.

    Note that they're referring to it as the tenth film, which is only technically correct. This will technically be either Saw IX (if they count Jigsaw as VIII) or Saw VIII (if they do not), with Spiral being a spin-off. Added up, it will make for ten films produced, however. So, they would have to officially count Spiral as Saw IX for this next film to be Saw X (which, apparently, is the working title).
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
  23. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    And, bam, trailer:



    So, obviously, this would confirm that Spiral is, in fact, now officially Saw IX, despite claims by the director 2 years ago.

    Also, synopses around confirm that this is set between Saw I & Saw II.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2023
  24. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Intriguing. Retconning Jigsaw and Spiral into Saws VIII & IX is not surprising to me at all. I'm down for the between I & II setting and down for more Tobin Bell and Shawnee Smith. It's always been the relationships between the characters and the ways in which the characters prove themselves to be hypocritical in different ways that's been interesting to me. And it's always more interesting when there's a thematic element to the tests rather than the movie just occasionally cutting to some rando glued to a car seat that has nothing to do with anything.
     
    The2ndQuest likes this.
  25. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    I think it was Saw III where Shawnee Smith's character went over the edge. I wonder if this new Saw movie will show her starting to become more extreme.