If Jar Jar was succesfull...

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by jengafett, Mar 3, 2005.

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  1. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Jar Jar is the only character in SW history to have heaps of screentime in one film followed by a bit part in the sequel. It never happened to any main characters in the OT. This was purely due to fan backlash.

    Yeah, it couldn't possibly be for any other reason. Such as story structure or narrative demands. [face_plain]
  2. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    I can see jar jar tagging along with Padme and Annie to tatooine and such. Narratively, it could have worked out that way just fine in the end. For now he's little more than furniture, shame really... Damn you jar jar haters! He deserves to be on screen a lot, he's cool. :p

    I bet his bumbling warrior style would have been a running gag carried over from episode 1.
  3. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Yeah, it couldn't possibly be for any other reason. Such as story structure or narrative demands.

    Sure that could be the reason...but it isn't and you know it.
  4. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    bet his bumbling warrior style would have been a running gag carried over from episode 1.

    Lets all be glad that that isn't the case.
  5. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Sure that could be the reason...

    Not only is it the reason, it makes a hell of a lot more sense than Lucas "caving" to fan pressure. Remember, we're talking about the man who is well known for his "it's my way or the highway" approach to filmmaking. See my sig (reproduced below in case I change it in the future). Lucas doesn't give a damn what the critics think and you know it.

    "[STAR WARS fans] all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they
    think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should
    have it my way."
    -George Lucas ;)
  6. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Lucas doesn't give a damn what the critics think and you know it.

    He wouldn't have cut back on Jar Jar if he didn't care. Face it. Live with it. Jar Jar got cut buddy.
  7. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Remember to put full name, address and designation, send to Lucas and get response. Find the truth I say! :p
  8. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    He wouldn't have cut back on Jar Jar if he didn't care. Face it. Live with it. Jar Jar got cut buddy.

    You're absolutely correct, hawk. That is the only reason Jar Jar's role was reduced from Episode 1 to Episode 2. There couldn't possibly be any other reason. You just keep on believing that, my young padawan.

    Maybe next you can convince yourself that Lucas is so racked with guilt over not releasing the "original" Original Trilogy on DVD that he'll inevitably "cave" to fan pressure and release a special set of unaltered movies just for little ol' you along with a note apologizing for the prequels.

    Or not. [face_laugh]
  9. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    GOD FORBID Jar Jar is succesfull...
  10. Darth_Faja Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2005
    star 1
    Anger, aggression, hate....the dark side I sense in this discussion! LOL!

    Seriously though, Lucas made his own decision on the subject of Jar Jar, but just because it's his and his alone, doesn't mean he didn't eventually share some of the fan opinion that Jar Jar needed to be cut back in AOTC.
  11. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    You're absolutely correct, hawk. That is the only reason Jar Jar's role was reduced from Episode 1 to Episode 2. There couldn't possibly be any other reason.

    Finally we agree on something. :p
  12. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Jar Jar is the only character in SW history to have heaps of screentime in one film followed by a bit part in the sequel. It never happened to any main characters in the OT. This was purely due to fan backlash.

    Got any proof of that, hawk? Beyond your own wishful thinking, I mean?

    Good to know Lucas listens to bashers for his ideas...sometimes.

    No he doesn't, thank all applicable deities.

    Would YOU listen to someone who insults you all the time, says you suck, calls you a hack, thinks they can tell your story better than you, gloats about some other movie getting Oscars while yours didn't, says everything good about your movies is due to someone other than you whereas everything bad is due to you, whinges about your "inferior" movies while still continuing to spend time and money on them -- and then assails you for your greed?

    I didn't think so.

    Jar Jar played a smaller role in AOTC because of story structure. In TPM, he played a big role because the main story was the Naboo blockade, which involved the Gungans. Jar Jar was the link between the Gungans and the human characters. Also, he was a testing ground for technology -- Lucas wanted to see if a major character could be rendered in all CGI. In AOTC, the technology had been proven, and the story didn't call for him to play a major role, so he didn't. However, he did play an important role; he's the one who calls for emergency powers to be granted to Palpatine.

    Oh, for those who say he was toned down because of backlash, note that he's his usual goofy Gungan self in the very first scene he appears in. The rest of the time, he's calmer and more sedate, but that befits his position. He's grown as a character.
  13. Delta_07 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2005
    star 1
    It probaly wouldnt change much
  14. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    To be fair, Nute Gunray played a pretty big role in TPM and all he got in AotC were about five scenes tops, while jar jar got about three. So the're both getting screwed by fans or the story since they're not in the story as much as they used to be. And one of them gets killed in Episode 3 by the way. ha ha ha ha ha ha I spoiled you!
  15. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Got any proof of that, hawk? Beyond your own wishful thinking, I mean?

    Jar Jar was a major character in TPM. Before TPM was released, most of the hype was about this first digital character in a film. Backlash towards JJ was massive - even bigger than George deserved IMHO. Then, when AOTC comes out, JJ is pushed into a tiny cameo role. Do I need Lucas to say "I cut him because of the backlash"? No. The proof is in the pudding.

    Jar Jar played a smaller role in AOTC because of story structure.

    Got any proof?

    Would YOU listen to someone who insults you all the time, says you suck, calls you a hack, thinks they can tell your story better than you, gloats about some other movie getting Oscars while yours didn't, says everything good about your movies is due to someone other than you whereas everything bad is due to you, whinges about your "inferior" movies while still continuing to spend time and money on them -- and then assails you for your greed?

    I think it would affect me if I created a film and movie critics and fans alike absolutely despised a character I made, so much so that I thought fewer people would see the sequel I created if this character were in it. I wouldn't like it but wouldn't be an idiot and keep the character in a major supporting role.

    In AOTC, the technology had been proven, and the story didn't call for him to play a major role, so he didn't.

    Proof?

    Oh, for those who say he was toned down because of backlash, note that he's his usual goofy Gungan self in the very first scene he appears in.

    Yeah, the whole 3 or 4 second of AOTC. Again, the proof is in the pudding.

    The rest of the time, he's calmer and more sedate, but that befits his position. He's grown as a character.

    Agreed.











  16. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Jar Jar was a major character in TPM. Before TPM was released, most of the hype was about this first digital character in a film. Backlash towards JJ was massive

    Really? Or did it just LOOK massive because the complainers were loud and all the media paid attention to?

    - even bigger than George deserved IMHO.

    Yeah right.

    Then, when AOTC comes out, JJ is pushed into a tiny cameo role. Do I need Lucas to say "I cut him because of the backlash"?

    Funny, because he said the exact opposite.

    No. The proof is in the pudding.

    hawk, I asked for proof that Lucas cut back Jar Jar's role in AOTC because of backlash. If you don't have any proof, just say so, OK?

    Got any proof?

    The STORY. Jeez! I know you hate both prequels, but that means you watched them at least once.

    I think it would affect me if I created a film and movie critics and fans alike absolutely despised a character I made, so much so that I thought fewer people would see the sequel I created

    He expected fewer people to see the sequel anyway. And since you think hatred of Jar Jar was so strong and so widespread that it would affect a movie's gross, please tell me why TPM, where he played a major role, grossed over $420 million domestically.

    if this character were in it. I wouldn't like it but wouldn't be an idiot and keep the character in a major supporting role.

    hawk, would you quit trying to change the subject and answer my question?

    I'll ask it again:

    Would YOU listen to someone who insults you all the time, says you suck, calls you a hack, thinks they can tell your story better than you, gloats about some other movie getting Oscars while yours didn't, says everything good about your movies is due to someone other than you whereas everything bad is due to you, whinges about your "inferior" movies while still continuing to spend time and money on them -- and then assails you for your greed?

    Proof?

    Look at your own post.

    Before TPM was released, most of the hype was about this first digital character in a film.

    Lucas says on the Beginning documentary that Jar Jar is the key to "all this," meaning the FX. He was a proving ground.

    Yeah, the whole 3 or 4 second of AOTC.

    Yeah...when he's first introduced.

    Again, the proof is in the pudding.

    Proof of what?
  17. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Shelley,

    I will try to be civil to you if you made just ONE attempt to be civil to me and, to be honest, I am sick of it. You're not worth it.
  18. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Regarldess of the backlash, Jar-Jar was successful.

    If this is to be a "what if" thread, we should ponder what might have happened had he not been successful.

    According to Lucas, Jar-Jar's lesser screentime in AOTC compared to TPM was an intentional result of the story focusing in on more important characters.

    He flat out says he knew he was going to get backlash from a certain demographic of fans who don't like comedic sidekicks. He says at a certain point, it becomes too much like a Disney film for them. He knew that going in and didn't care. He is telling the story he wants to tell, and if people have a problem with it, they can go watch something else.
  19. CBright7831 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 23, 2004
    star 4
    One scene where Jar Jar got more sceen time than he should have was when he got zapped by Anakin's racer. They just kept trying to beat us over the head with the comedy stick, and it didn't work. That's just one of the many scenes in the movie where this happens.

    I'm glad they cut him for Episode II. Even though they still gave him a role that had alot of impact as he did start the Empire.
  20. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    According to Lucas, Jar-Jar's lesser screentime in AOTC compared to TPM was an intentional result of the story focusing in on more important characters.

    Sure that's possible but I think unlikely. JJ backlash was huge and it would be an even bigger coincidence that he just happened to be side-lined after the backlash. But I don't think we'll ever agree Go-Mer so let's just agree to disagree for the infinite time. ;)
  21. starwarsofthesouth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2005
    star 1
    DUDE, now really its a MOVIE.
  22. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    Sure that's possible but I think unlikely. JJ backlash was huge and it would be an even bigger coincidence that he just happened to be side-lined after the backlash.



    Actually, if the backlash was THAT big, Jar-Jar wouldn't have appeared at all. Seriously, if what you are saying is true, then Lucas wouldn't have put him at all.

    Lucas has SAID on the DVD that Jar Jar was ment to be a humorous character... funny... and you see him watching old buster keaton movies watching in amazement. That was the piece of cinema that Lucas was trying to bring back.

    Now we all know that The Phantom Menance was to show that the galaxy at its last happy time. Every movie of that becomes darker.

    Now look at Episode II. There are two main stories and two subplots.

    Plot one: PAdme and Anakins Romance. Okay, is there Room for Jar Jar in this? Honestly?

    Plot TWO: Obi-wan seeeks out the assasins. DEFINITATLEY no room for him there.. wouldn't make sense to have him go with.

    Subplot one: Ankain drift to the Darkside.. As much as many fan boys would love it. Jar Jar is NOT a sith Lord.

    Supplot two: Palpatine gets Emergency Powers. Yes... THERE is the way that Jar Jar can fit... being manipulated into helping Palpatine getting powers.

    Lucas put Jar Jar in.... and in the best possible role. In a movie series that is getting progressively dark... Jar Jar contribution will become smaller and smaller.
  23. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Lucas has built his career around dismissing anyone else's opinion he doesn't agree with.

    Given his track record for following his own tastes regardless of what critics may think, added to the fact that TPM chimed in at the 2nd highest world wide box office gross of all time...

    Why would Lucas give the Anti Jar-Jar backlash any credence at all?

    Because these people tend to use all caps?

    I don't think that's enough.
  24. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    When one of the ILM animators begged Lucas to tone down Jar Jar's antics in TPM, he said no.

    If he wouldn't listen to one of his animators, why on Earth would he listen to a bunch of Internet fanboys who tear apart his films and bash them, and him, seven ways from Sunday, yet still continue to spend their time, and money, on what he puts out?

  25. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Actually, if the backlash was THAT big, Jar-Jar wouldn't have appeared at all. Seriously, if what you are saying is true, then Lucas wouldn't have put him at all.

    1. That would be too obvious.
    2. He already invested a LOT in the character. Both plot-wise and investment-wise, he couldn't just dump the character all together.

    Now look at Episode II. There are two main stories and two subplots.

    There's no room for him because Lucas never made room for him.

    Lucas put Jar Jar in.... and in the best possible role. In a movie series that is getting progressively dark... Jar Jar contribution will become smaller and smaller.

    Again, possible but I don't think so.



    Why would Lucas give the Anti Jar-Jar backlash any credence at all?

    Because the backlash was accurate. At least he learns from his mistakes.






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