PT If Padme had lived........

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Frankakin skywalker, Dec 28, 2012.

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  1. Solent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 2
    She always died like that, in RotJ she just had taken a few years more, but it was still hinted at having died due to a very bad emotional state.

    I like to think Anakin´s choke was also (unwittingly) a mind and/or spirit attack in addition to cutting her breath, and that´s the reason she didn´t make it... besides inducing a natural twin birth on someone in such a bad mental and physical shape.
  2. themetresgained Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2013
    star 4
    Why does everyone have such a low opinion of Padme that they think that her being written as dying of a broken heart or surviving and then wasting away is somehow IN CHARACTER for her?

    Padme was badass. She loved the Republic, she loved her children and she loved her husband. She would have done whatever she could to protect them. Her dying of a broken heart when there was so much for her to do is sheer nonsense.

    The only explanation for her death is out-of-universe, that is, 'it wouldn't have worked for the story if she'd stayed alive so we had to kill her off'. Accepting that, it seriously would have been better if she'd just died from the physical complications of childbirth rather than the rubbish we got
  3. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    Everyone has a weak point, and I think that her need to be of service and help others was hers. And getting hit with so much tragedy over such a short time, and being told by the man she loves that it was all because of her, and with no real assurance to the contrary, would have destroyed her. And no matter how much of a fighter you are, there's a point where you just can't keep it going anymore.

    That's not having a low opinion of Padme, that's recognizing that she has as much human frailty as anyone else.
  4. Poor Greedo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 2
    Vader chokes out Admiral Motti pretty hard and that guy lived. At least till the end of ANH lol
  5. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Maybe the Padme in ROTS was an imposter, and real-Padme was hiding in R2 this whole time?
    Skywalker Thing likes this.
  6. themetresgained Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2013
    star 4
    There's human frailty, and there's stuff that is unrealistic. This is Padme Amidala. She rescued her planet from an occupation at age 14. She stood firmly against the creation of an army of the Republic because she was resolute in her desire to see a non-violent end to the conflict. She had the wherewithal to release herself from her bindings in the arena on Geonosis using a freaking hairpin in the face of execution. She stood with other Senators to pledge their support to democracy in the Republic against a man whom she had once seen as a mentor. Everything else is bad writing.
  7. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    And she also had the man she loved more than anyone else in the Universe give her a power-crazed smile and talk about how he'd killed off all of his enemies and was going to take over the galaxy in her name. And then that same man threatened her and actually tried to strangle her, while she was carrying their children. And afterwards, she's left with an Empire that will hunt her down as an enemy, only a handful of allies (most of whom don't dare show their faces in public), a family that'll be endangered if she so much as gives Palpatine a dirty look, and a sense of overwhelming guilt.

    After something like that, you don't just (as my brother would say) shrug shoulders and keep walking.
    Darth Raiden likes this.
  8. Grade Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2013
    star 1
    Yes, but as Padmé being who she was, how she reacted in previous two movies (despite some inconsistencies, that will not will explore) she would had the drive and the will in having a new mission in life, keeping her children safe from their father and the Emperor.

    If was not for Original trilogy (of Leia remembering her, but died to young phrase) and no more time on the movie, the death was easy way out. I tto prefer she had died from chilburth complications or actual demage to her throat.

    The loose will to live is out of character and for me ruined the entire character of Padmé, that is for me screaming for Alternative Universe story. :p
  9. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Dying of a broken heart has nothing to do with character.
  10. themetresgained Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2013
    star 4
    Agreed.
    It has EVERYTHING to do with character. What are you even saying? Dying of a broken heart is the kind of nonsense you hear in fairytales. So if she were the kind of person who could literally see no way out and no hope - which doesn't square with the fact that she told Obi-Wan 'there is good in him still' - then yes, that would make sense. But she's not. That's not in her character. She's a fighter. Yes, people get tired of fighting sometimes, but someone like her wouldn't just give up at what is literally the galaxy's most desperate hour. Padme loved her children fiercely and was determined to protect them, which means having to fight to make the galaxy a better place. I would also imagine she is the kind of person who feels somewhat culpable given that Palpatine had basically spent the last 13 years manipulating her (and longer, if Plagueis is anything to go by - he got her elected as Queen).
    I understand that her story had to be finished up by the end of RotS. But it would have been much better if she'd actually died from physical reasons. I understand that 'dying of a broken heart' is essentially to add weight to Anakin's tragedy (seeing as he falls to try and keep her from dying and she dies because he's fallen) but it doesn't do any service to her. Which is the problem with the entirety of RotS, pretty much.
    Last edited by themetresgained, Nov 9, 2013
  11. DLINE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2013
    star 1
    If she had survived then I think she MIT have been the new with like the jada the empours hand.
  12. CommanderDrenn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2013
    star 4
    Vader probably would have tried to convert her. If not, there would be a slight chance of him returning to the light side. Personally, I doubt that, as once the Dark Side has you, it really has you. Vader may have even killed Padme, as Yoda said that Anakin was dead and Vader was in his place. He probably wouldn't want reminders of his former self around. Also, to test Vader's loyalty, the Emperor would probably have Vader kill Padme. I don't think he would fail, as he is now a cold-blooded killer. In for a credit-bit, in for a credit (in for a penny, in for a pound, Star Wars version:))
  13. DARTHLINK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 3
    Exactly. Here is a character who seems to be the sort of person who will fight to the bitter end if she must. Seeing as she still believed there was good in Anakin, that's good of a reason to keep fighting (that is, of course, excluding her two children.) This is a person that will keep fighting until he/she is literally to the point of physical collapse. It's like having Frodo die of a broken heart, no, he will literally crawl on his hands and knees to Mount Doom to destroy the ring, because that is what he had been told to do. Padme will, to quote Shakespeare's Macbeth, "fight until from [her] flesh, her bones be hacked."

    Let's not forget, she would have Bail Organa, Obi-Wan, and Yoda as her allies. I'm sure they would've found a way to keep her safe while she helped plan the rebellion. In fact, it could've easily been HER that was the face, and supreme leader of the Rebellion.

    And let's also not forget that Obi-Wan and Yoda had pretty much seen the very Republic they dedicated their lives to defend fall into an Empire, seen the corpses of the people they've known their whole lives strewn about the Jedi Temple, some with lightsaber wounds. Obi-Wan, personally, had to duel a man he once saw as a brother, whom he had raised since the man was a small boy, to the death on a lava planet, dismember him, and watch him scream in ungodly agony as he was lit aflame. Do they keep walking? Yes. If they can do it, then so can Padme.

    If she absolutely had to die, then have Anakin kill her in a fit of rage, or have her die during the operation from wounds sustained by Anakin. That way it would keep within her character. She could've fought, had her present injuries not killed her. Dying of a broken heart? It's...just weak, I think. It makes her weak.
    themetresgained likes this.
  14. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Maybe something like Takotsubo Cardiomyopathy? Mostly in post menopausal women, and has a high survival rate (although there apparently are exceptions to these rules). Still, maybe an odd example of this with Padme.

    Or maybe something different happened to Padme resulting in death from a broken heart, something resulting from a phenomenon in a galaxy far far away? We are able to use our imagination to see things happen that aren't conceivable in our galaxy (in fact, things that are a lot less conceivable than a person dying from emotional trauma, odd medical phenomenon happen all of the time, more often than people being proven to move objects with their thoughts...); I'm not sure what makes this so hard. It seems to be less related to realism and more related to not liking or relating to Padme being weak in the way she dies (I have heard a number of people say this), but I don't think one has to look at it that way. Really you could look at it the other way, that her love for Anakin was so other-worldly strong (there are quite a number of other angles one could take on this in fact).

    I think Lucas was being poetic in his storytelling; there definitely was a reason he didn't have her die in another way. I think this had to do with influences in his storytelling from old-fashioned tragedies. I personally liked the end of ROTS quite a lot overall, and thought the way she died fit in fine. It IMO did a nice job of setting up the OT. I know (obviously from responses to this and other threads) some DIDN'T like it, but many that saw it would disagree. I don't think it is useful to debate this or try to change the way anyone else sees it, but ROTS is generally regarded as the most liked movie of the PT, both from viewers and critics.

    As far as the OP goes, I don't know. Anakin wouldn't have been able to be much of a lover; his body was roasted like a marshmallow. The person that he was would have physically been a goner, so he would therefore not have the same kind of lover/lover relationship with Padme (having her alive, but not having the kind of relationship they once had might have made him even MORE angry, and he might have blamed her even more for his problems and frustrations in the end). I think part of Vader turning back to good had to do with it being at the end of his life, and this changing his perspective (as it often does), as well as the circumstances around Palp killing his son. So no, given all I have mentioned in this paragraph (and Anakin's state of mind when he first turned), I don't think she would have turned him back to being good had she survived; not until way later in his life anyway.
  15. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    I think we'll have to agree to differ on this one. I just think that, given the situation at the time and the certainty that it would get worse, Padme must've figured the best thing she could do for everyone is die and stop being a burden, or even a threat.

    As for her allies, who are they? Bail Organa has to stay undercover, or else he'll lose any influence in the Senate. Padme's family would be closely watched by Palpatine and threatened if she tried anything. Her kids may as well have targets on their backs, as long as she's anywhere near them. Obi-Wan ("She's a politician, and not to be trusted") and Yoda ("Mourn them not, miss them not") were sad, but didn't really do much to ease her grief, or change their original thought that she's one reason Ani went off the rails. The troopers she fought alongside would have orders to arrest her, or kill her, on sight. And most of her fellow senators would stay as far away from her as possible, in order to save their own backsides. And, above all else, Ani committed terrible crimes for her, and, alive or not, he's going to do worse. Padme's a fighter, but she's not invincible. All this would've crushed her, as it would crush just about anyone.

    Oh, and STAR WARS is a fairy tale, when you get right down to it.
    lbr789 and Darth Raiden like this.
  16. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    As much as I dislike Padme's characterization in ROTS, I grudgingly agree with it.
  17. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Palpatine had a fairly solid control over Vader by the time things got to Mustafar. But as soon as Padme enters the picture, Vader is quick to try and appeal to Padme by saying he can overthrow Palpatine.

    Vader's love of Padme was always going to trump his (reluctant) loyalty to Palpatine and that makes Padme a threat to Palpatine. Had Padme survived Mustafar, I would think that Palpatine would do everything in his power to either kill her, or take her captive and use the threat of killing her to push Vader into even further obedience.

    I think she would find her spot on top of Palpatine's hit list had she survived.
  18. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    She would go into hiding on Tatooine, since she knows Vader would never go there ever again
  19. themetresgained Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2013
    star 4
    How? As far as Palpatine knows, she is dead. And even if he doesn't 'know', he has an incentive to ignore the possibility that she's still alive because it's the only thing keeping Vader with him. There's no way that Palpatine can ascertain, one way or another, whether Padme is dead.
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    He can look at the records of the funeral on Naboo. Or even dig up the body and compare it to past records of Padme.
  21. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    And there's always the Force...
  22. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4

    Why would Palpatine think she's dead? He knew either because he sensed her die or because it had already been reported that she was dead and her funeral was carried out.

    Vader didn't even think she was dead. And Padme felt that Anakin still was good deep down. I don't think she was going to go hide on Tatooine for the rest of her life with Obi-Wan and pretend she was dead. Had she survived Mustafar, she seemed like the kind of person that would still have done all that she could to get through to Anakin and stop the Empire. And Palpatine could not allow her to run around jeopardizing his control over Anakin.

    And Palpatine likely didn't need Vader out there obsessively trying to track down his wife, the one person who could probably get Anakin to turn away from Palpatine or turn against Palpatine.

    But if Vader finds out that Palpatine killed his wife, then that would create other issues. So I could see Palpatine either killing Padme quietly, before Vader even realizes that she's still alive. Or if it's too late and Vader already knows she survived, then Palpatine might use the threat of killing her to keep Vader in line.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Nov 21, 2013
  23. Son of a Bith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    If Padme had lived, Luke would have had even more awkward, incesty feelings to deal with.
    Last edited by Son of a Bith, Nov 21, 2013
    VanishingReality likes this.
  24. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    If she has to die due to the trauma of betrayal, by all rights so should Obi-wan. (And to be fair, in the ROTS novelization, Obi-wan did contemplate suicide, but was convinced otherwise by Yoda who was having exactly NONE of that.)

    xD So if Yoda burst in with his stick going Need you the galaxy does! maybe Padme could have survived. But ultimately Obi-wan is seen as heroic for not giving in to his grief, and Padme is not because she did. They both exhibit 'human frailty' but one does so in an extremely ooc manner.
    themetresgained likes this.
  25. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 4
    That's certainly a possibility. About all Obi-Wan does is tell her, "Save your strength," and we don't see Yoda do much beyond look sad. If they'd shown more open support and sympathy, who knows?
    VanishingReality likes this.
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