PT If Padme had lived........

Remember, Yoda said, "Through the Force, visions you will see. Other places. The past, the future. Old friends long gone." The basis for that explanation is there, though I agree I'm just speculating.

 

Once Luke was trained and able to use the force to get/create those visions. Leia wasn't.

As I said, if the two lines/ideas really did fit together, there would be no need for speculation. And really, the Force can be used as a very good catch all reason for pretty much anything/everything in the series.

 

Again, we'll just have to agree to differ. I find it believable, you don't.

 

Even before she knows the precise nature of Anakin's involvement, she seems to think she won't live much longer, during Palpatine's "A Safe and Secure Society" speech in the novel:

Bail couldn't hear Padme over the din, but he could read her lips.
So this is how liberty dies, she was saying to herself. With cheering, and applause.
"We can't let this happen!" Bail lurched to his feet. "I have to get to my pod—we can still enter a motion—"
"No." Her hand seized his arm with astonishing strength, and for the first time since he'd arrived, she looked straight into his eyes. "No, Bail, you can't enter a motion. You can't. Fang Zar has already been arrested, and Tundra Dowmeia, and it won't be long until the entire Delegation of the Two Thousand are declared enemies of the state. You stayed off that list for good reason; don't add your name by what you do today."
"But I can't just stand by and watch—"
"You're right. You can't just watch. You have to vote for him."
"What?"
"Bail, it's the only way. It's the only hope you have of remaining in a position to do anyone any good. Vote for Palpatine. Vote for the Empire. Make Mon Mothma vote for him too. Be good little Senators. Mind your manners and keep your heads down. And keep doing... all those things we can't talk about. All those things I can't know. Promise me, Bail."
"Padme, what you're talking about—what we're not talking about—it could take twenty years! Are you under suspicion? What are you going to do?"
"Don't worry about me," she said distantly. "I don't know I'll live that long."

 

Anakin was unconsciously using the Force in certain ways, including having precognitive dreams, before training.

 

I wonder why it is that dudes in this thread find it so easy to believe that a woman could die of a broken heart, whereas the women are like 'no, this actually goes against every other part of her character's treatment in the other films, this is nuts and bad writing'.

 

To be honest, no matter what anyone thinks of Padmé's reaction, I don't think anyone thinks her reaction is worse than Anakin's. Even if one believes that Padmé died because she couldn't stand the thought of living without Anakin, at least she only let herself die -- while leaving her children in the care of trusted friends.

Anakin's reaction to the mere threat against Padmé's life was to betray everyone that cared about him and murder all the Jedi, including the children.

I don't really see it as a result of gender (and, even if that's the case, Padmé still comes out looking better -- Anakin literally says he can't live without her). Really, it's more of a character issue. Padmé's a martyr -- I can see her dying if she believes the cause worthy.

 

Hey if I can live with Superman's mom abandoning him before Krypton went boom... Then I can live with this

 

I'm a woman. And I found nothing wrong with Padme's death.

 

"In this thread" i.e. having been a part of the argument that has spanned 3 or 4 pages. Obviously.

 

I wasn't suggesting that it was a hard-and-fast rule, just an observation

 

He is able to fly pods because he is seeing a second or two, if that, into the future. He wasn't have visions of the futures or relatives he never met

I'm a dude and I didn't like that part of the story. Beyond the medical impossible-ness of it, you're right it doesn't seem like Padme to just give up AND what kind of mother just gives up on her children? Sure your'e husband had turned and is basically gone/lost, but you now have these 2 infant's that NEED you, that doesn't give someone meaning? The whole thing would have been better and made sense (espically given Leia's line in RotJ) if Padme had gone to Alderaan as well and died off screen.

Who then turn them over to people who are basically strangers (at the very least, Luke is).

She didn't abandon him, she saved his life by sending him away. Now, had Lucas created that kind of situation for Padme at the end of Episode III. Maybe she gives birth earlier in the movie, she knows Anakin is coming to get her but she doesn't want him to get the children and knows he'll hunt her down if she runs, so she gives the twins to Obi-wan, tells Anakin they died in child birth (or maybe that she aborted them or something to keep them away from their father.......) and then Anakin ends up killing her in a fit rage over it, maybe Palpatine knows she is preganent and wants Anakin to get the baby so they can start training it basically from birth and he is unhappy he failed his master.......

In that kind of situation she does die for something she believes in, she goes out fighting, she dies protecting her children. The Leia line still doesn't make sense, but its a much better death for the character

 

His dreams are supposed to be occasionally precognitive or prophetic; even if we throw out the one alluded to in TPM, there's a better example in the novelization.

 

Except they never shown be, thats you adding something that isn't there to make your opinion fit better.

Also, pre-cog dreams (that might or might not be true, and if they aren't true were they really pre-cog visions?) and learning what your mother, who you never met, was really like aren't the samething.

 

Wrong. My "opinion" was a reference to those examples in the first place. They are there: one is in the film, and the other is in the novelization. Not to mention that his prophetic dreams continue in AOTC/ROTS and become totally undeniable at that point. You act as if he had to be trained to have dreams. Dream training???

 

She didn't abandon him, she saved his life by sending him away. Now, had Lucas created that kind of situation for Padme at the end of Episode III. Maybe she gives birth earlier in the movie, she knows Anakin is coming to get her but she doesn't want him to get the children and knows he'll hunt her down if she runs, so she gives the twins to Obi-wan, tells Anakin they died in child birth (or maybe that she aborted them or something to keep them away from their father.......) and then Anakin ends up killing her in a fit rage over it, maybe Palpatine knows she is preganent and wants Anakin to get the baby so they can start training it basically from birth and he is unhappy he failed his master.......

In that kind of situation she does die for something she believes in, she goes out fighting, she dies protecting her children. The Leia line still doesn't make sense, but its a much better death for the character[/quote].

Ifmy memory serves me correct in the pilot episode of the animated series, Jor El gave her the opportunity to leave with Kal, but decided to stay instead

 

She didn't abandon him, she saved his life by sending him away. Now, had Lucas created that kind of situation for Padme at the end of Episode III. Maybe she gives birth earlier in the movie, she knows Anakin is coming to get her but she doesn't want him to get the children and knows he'll hunt her down if she runs, so she gives the twins to Obi-wan, tells Anakin they died in child birth (or maybe that she aborted them or something to keep them away from their father.......) and then Anakin ends up killing her in a fit rage over it, maybe Palpatine knows she is preganent and wants Anakin to get the baby so they can start training it basically from birth and he is unhappy he failed his master.......

In that kind of situation she does die for something she believes in, she goes out fighting, she dies protecting her children. The Leia line still doesn't make sense, but its a much better death for the character[/quote].

If my memory serves me correct in the pilot episode of the animated series, Jor El gave her the opportunity to leave with Kal, but decided to stay instead

 

Ok if she lived. Well she didn't.

 

There isn't one in the film. He says he dreamed he was a Jedi and he came back and freed the slaves. Thats not a prophetic dream. And in AotC and RotS he is a trained force user. And everyone has dreams, but not everyone has dreams of the future or were they learn about people they never knew, to a point were they felt like they actually knew them for years.

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Ifmy memory serves me correct in the pilot episode of the animated series, Jor El gave her the opportunity to leave with Kal, but decided to stay instead[/quote]

That would bet he only version of the story I've heard including that element.

 

If she survived the force choke? She didn't.

"Only Sith deal in absolutes"

He made sure of it.

 

That's not a prophetic dream???? He became a Jedi so that part was fully correct, and he also freed the galaxy from becoming slaves to the Empire. There's also a precognitive dream about the Tuskens in the novel.

He was already using the Force before being trained, just without realizing it. Did the Jedi teach him to dream better?

 

A kid dreaming he is the real life super hero of the Star Wars universe, doing something he never actually does is not a prophetic dream.

As I said, he is seeing 1-2 seconds into the future, not getting visions of the future. And the Jedi taught him to connect with the force that his dreams did start to become prophetic, where they weren't in TPM.

 

He actually does become a Jedi. He actually does balance the Force, making him the Chosen One, kind of a "real life super hero of the Star Wars universe". Even the part about freeing the slaves is metaphorically true if not literally true.

We know he was connecting to the Force without necessarily realizing it before he was accepted by the Jedi. There doesn't seem to be any particular reason why receptivity to prophetic dreams should be any different.