If Palpatine was not a Sith, then what??

If palpatine was not a Sith. if he was only a very sneaky and very good politician.
would u believe that he could have pulled off everything in PT, minus the part he substitu Dooku with Anakin.
the way i see it, the things he did in TPM and AOTC is job of a great politician and being a Underground Sith
doesnt really helped him at all, except for self-defense. ofcourse, sence he is not a Sith, he couldnt care less about anakin, so there would be no Mace/sidious duel, sence he would have activated Order 66 to killoff Mace and would half kept the Fotrce-wielder Count Dooku as his Right-hand guy. anyways I think dooku joined palpy really b/c of the corruption in the republic, not b/c he was in love with the idea of being a Sith. so if palpy wasnt a Sith, dooku still would have joined him in his sneaky plans. However, that being said, the scene that Yoda walks in and thinks "enough is enough", it would Yoda against the Fotrce-wielder Count bodyguard Dooku !!!

ONSCREEN the only time palpy use the Force was for self-defense (against Yoda and Mace)!!!!

 

He couldnt have turned Anakin. He couldnt have beaten Yoda..or Mace. He couldnt have had all those glorious apprentices.

No. He wouldnt have succeeded. Not by a long shot.

 

this should go in the 'what if' thread

 

why he should care about Anakin; he is just another jedi to be eliminated by Order 66 and therefore there wouldbe a confrontation with Mace sense he would activated order 66 well before he is suspected of being a manipulator

 

If he wasn't a Sith then the Jedi would have foreseen his plans and stopped him. That's one of the plot points of the films, the Jedi are losing their abilities as the dark side takes over.

 

i see what u mean, so clouding the abilities of the Jedi to see, was his force-wielding stuff that he did for ep I and ep II and interim

 

Actually Palpatine was using the force throughout the entire PT.I.E. Clouding the vision of the Jedi, manipulating the senate etc...

 

I'm not sure of all the details about how the dark side is clouding their vision, but the exchange that Mace and Yoda have in AOTC is the proof. They are blind to the force since they couldn't see the creation of the clone army. If Palpatine wasn't a Sith then the Jedi would have known all about his plans.


EDIT: This all makes me wonder about Anakin's visions. If the Jedi lost the ability to see the future, shouldn't Yoda have been SHOCKED when Anakin came for his advice in ROTS? And if the ability to see the future was indeed clouded, then Anakin must have been half gone even before he returned to Tatooine in AOTC. In fact, before AOTC even started, since he mentioned his 'dreams' to Obi-Wan.

 

The Sith were blinded by the lightside in the PT if anyone noticed

 

I agree on one thing :

Most of what Palpatine accomplishes in the prequels (95% ??) is done without relying on the dark side of the force *at all*. He is a good ol' earthly dictator.

Surnatural powers are never the key to the plot : they are used more as symbols. The dark side represents the corruption, corruption of democracy, of the soul and of the flesh.
Since it's a fantasy movie wizzards face each other, but in the end, everything comes down to very simple, basic human feelings, manipulations, motives.

That's why you can't just rate jedi masters and Sith lords according to their respective force powers. What really decide their fate is the political situation in which they get caught, their emotions.

It's not a RPG or TCG game. It's really a mythological tale about how difficult it is to fight an enemy who attacks from inside : inside democracy, or inside your own soul.

Force powers are insignificant in the starwars saga when you look at it. As an illustration of my claim, see the destiny of the chosen one. His feelings, his emotions, his jealousy, his love for his wife or his son are what seal his fate : Vader doesn't use extraordinary powers when he kills Palps. His extraordinary abilities doesn't allow him to escape the lava bath in ROTS.

Force powers are a detail in Starwars. For Palpatine like for anybody else.


That said, *in* the starwars universe, Palpatine has to be a Sith. Symbolically it cannot be otherwise. But that doesn't mean that he relies on the dark side to gain power. Things have to be balanced storywise : once you define the Jedi as the good guys, you have to come up with the Sith as the bad guy. You can't have either the Yin or the Yan. You gotta have both, or it doesn't work. Or you have to do a realistic movie about tyranny, without fantasy symbols and mythological patterns, which is a whole different thing.

 

The Dark Side of the Force leads to political positions some consider unnatural.

 

Let's assume that Palpatine is not a Sith but rather a powerful Senator that's recruited the Sith in his quest to become Emperor. As power hungry as the Sith are do you think that they would be subordinate to a senator? As soon as Order 66 was given Count Dooku would have turned to Palpatine and told him
I'm alterting the terms of our deal. Now I'm The Emperor and you're my Executive Assistant. Pray that I don't alter the deal any further.........

 

Well said. And kudos to George for using the concept of The Force in this way. It's why so many people can relate to the characters, when it's all said and done what really matters are the very "human" elements: how they react, how they feel, what they can accomplish with their mind and heart... not with the Force.

Too true.

 

Only as a Sith could he rule the galaxy. The Jedi wouldn't have tried to arrest him. But without being a Sith, he couldn't have controlled the Senate, he couldn't have turned Anakin, and he couldn't have eliminated the Jedi.

 

Only a Sith would be as Bold as to attempt what Palpatine did.

 

Technically, since the topic creator is asking if Palps wasn't a Sith, could he still do what he did. I'd have to say no, he wouldn't even think of it if he weren't a Sith. He'd just be a Senator for Naboo, no Trade Federation attacks, no nothing. That is, if you believe he even had a shred of good in him.

 

I agree . No mere Politician would be able to pull something like that off. a Sith with the Persuasive power of the Darkside would stand a chance.

 

Says a lot about the state of government today if someone can actually believe that...

 

i think it wouldve been cool had palpatine learned to use the darkside during his time as chancellor, wouldve made the jedi look less like idiots

 

There was no way for Palpatine to pull it off. He clearly clouded the vision of the Jedi and even their ability to use the Force had diminished as Master Windu stated. Let's take a person he can't use the Force like Valorum. Does anyone here actually believe Valorum could have done the same thing as Palpatine and declared himself Emperor of an Empire? Sids was able to do what he did because of the dark side of the Force.

Blind we are if creation of this clone army we could not see. -Yoda

It could have also been because the Jedi were not attuned to the Living Force. But that's another subject altogether.

 

the things he did in TPM and AOTC is job of a great politician

Politics not make one great.

 

I really think that he only got the job done because he was a Sith Lord. I think the Sidious Gushers and Sidious Bashers miss the point of mind control of the masses being one of the Sith Lord's primary powers. The Gushers point to the fact that he 0wnz Yoda, the Bashers point to the fact that he didn't 0wnz Yoda or Mace as a true testament to his power. I would say that Sidious shows how powerful he was with the force by basically "Mass Jedi Mind Tricking" most of the representatives of the senate. No ordinary man could have done this.

Carnage

 

I so hate any type of what if thread............What if Lucas just never made the bloody movies?

 

If Lucas hadn't made any of the movies my house would be clean right now.

Carnage

 

if he wasnt a sith at all in ne way...well it would be a pretty short duel between him agen, fisto, tiin and windu..lol

mace and trio come in: "u r under arrest..etc" but then palp picks up his pen off his desk and throws it at then.. it hits kolar in the head..he says ow..then they take him away in hand cuffs ...lol the end