If Palpatine's plan went as designed....

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by DARTHCARDINUS, Dec 24, 2004.

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  1. DARTHCARDINUS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2003
    star 1
    This is just a quick thought and i hope im not repeating anyone but consider this....

    Waht if MAul had never been killed and remained Sids' apprentice, would Maul have been able take on the role Dooku is playing right now? I cant see him being able to play the "regal" aspect that was needed...
    What effect would this have had on ROTS?
    sorry if im on the wrong board.....be nice
  2. quigonsloegin Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2004
    star 1
    Palps is doing all the major stuff from behind the scenes. Maul was a 1 trick pony. A good warriror who could of been great but was ultimatly too arrogant. I think palps realized this and thats why he pushed him to face the jedi. Probably hoped he would die so he could start over with someone who had a broader range of talents.
  3. Xyber_Hex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2004
    star 4
    If Maul hadnt been killed Sids would have made sure that there was an accident or that he put Dooku in a situation to deal with him.
  4. CloneCommander07 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2004
    star 4
    Maul and Dooku are both apprentices to Sids that allow him time to groom Anakin. Maul was a warrior and Dooku was a political idealist.

    Anakin will be a little of both but not too much political seeing as how there is one person who will rule the Empire with an influenced Senate.

    If Maul or Dooku hadn't have died then Anakin would have probably destroyed them anyways and he'd still be Sids/Palpy's apprentice.
  5. Darth_Caine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2004
    star 3
    Maul was cool. But only a fighter, an instrument of Sidious. If he had survived TPM he surely would have died in AOTC.
  6. ShaakTi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2004
    star 2
    I disagree....Sidious had raised Maul since he was a baby, and he was like a father figure to Darth Maul. Also, Sidious could have in no way known about Anakin Skywalker in The Phantom Menace. I personally think Darth Maul would have stayed apprentice had he not been killed, since Darth Maul was one of the best fighters around at the time (I dare say he could have gone toe to toe with Mace Windu), Dooku was an old fool who "thought" he felt the power of the dark side, but after the loss of Maul then Palpatine realized that Anakin could be turned, and would be better than Dooku, that is ultimately why Palpatine sacrificed Count Dooku. Lets say Darth Maul had killed Obi-Wan Kenobi, then Yoda and the rest of the council would have never let Anakin be trained, he would have never gained access to the force, and Palpatine would have kept Maul, Maul would have killed Windu, and Maul would become Sith Apprentice, The End.
  7. Xyber_Hex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2004
    star 4
    Not at all, without Dooku all of the political machinations would have never been possible.
    Fooku was already being groomed or Sids would not have sent Maul againt two jedi.
  8. Darth_Pestelis Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2004
    It's pretty obvious that it makes no difference if Maul died or not. Had he survived, Lucas would be dealing with major plot holes since the fact Episodes I-III were made 20+ years after Episodes IV-VI. If that were the case how would Anakin's fall to the Dark Side be explained?
  9. DARTHCARDINUS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2003
    star 1
    obviously Maul would have evntually been killed off. But a major part af palps' plan has to do with creating an opposition to the republic and i cant really seeing Maul sitting at a conference table hammering out the finer details of their alliance...
  10. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    I think Dooku was already being used in TPM to get things done (when it comes to politics and finances) and Maul was his apprentice who he had planned to keep.

    If Maul had survived TPM, Sidious would have eventually sent him to kill Dooku, and I'm pretty sure he would have accomplished it.
    Maul would have been "extremely" powerful by the time of AOTC because he would have had ten more years of darkside training, and Dooku would not have been nearly as powerful as he was in AOTC because he wouldnt have been using the darkside for all of those years.
    Darth Maul dying was not part of the plan. Once he did die Sidious had to bring someone off of the bench to take his place (that someone was Dooku), he ended up having to use Dooku for finances, politics, AND to handle "aggresive negotiations" so he just made him a sith. But Sidious always wants the more powerful apprentice so he had Anakin on the bench waiting, and eventually he was going to have him fight Dooku to see who he would have as his next apprentice (he probably never really wanted Dooku anyway).

    But had Maul lived I think in ROTS you would have seen an EXTREMELY powerful Darth Maul against Darth Vader at his best fighting it out with Sidious as the only spectator (grinning and cackling as usual):cool:
  11. Wrath_Of_Windu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2003
    star 2
    Well you have to take a few things into consideration. During TPM, Sidious didn't know anything about Anakin, it wasn't until he saw what he could do (the space battle) that he realized how much potential the child had. Remember, Anakin was born on Tatooine...outside of the Republics control so no one knew about him. Maul would have lasted as long as he could, if he would have killed Obi-Wan and survived then Sidious would have just seen it as two good jedi that he didn't have to worry about getting in the way. But the thing about Sidious is that he always had a backup plan, he was always two steps ahead of the jedi. He knew there would be the possibility of Maul dying, so he must have had some kind of "backup apprentice" list. Sidious always needed someone to do his dirtywork for him. I mean, he knew the jedi would figure it out sooner or later and come for him, but until then he needed someone else. Dooku was next obviously...Sidious knew the bad seeds when he saw them. Dooku was ordered to order the clone army which would in the end be the army of Sidious. Then Anakin comes along and changes EVERYTHING. Sidious saw him as the ULTIMATE apprentice. Not just someone to pass the time. That's why he twisted his mind as he was growing up....in steps Darth Vader!!!!

    It was the perfect plan...that worked!!!
  12. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    My whole point is that once the events of TPM were all over and Sidious knew who Anakin was, even if he already had Dooku in the wings and Maul survived, Dooku would have been bumped down to third string with Maul being in the forefront and Anakin being Sidious' next option (because of his power).

    Look at it like this, Maul had the potential to be a very powerful sith lord, he probably used the darkside from birth so he was a "true" sith, Anakin was conceived by the force so his power is self-explanitory but Dooku is an old over the hill ex-jedi so Sidious was probably going to get rid of him when it was all over anyway.
    Luke was young, Anakin was young, and Maul was probably a baby when Sidious corrupted him so just from his history of recruiting, I cant see Sidious wanting an "old" apprentice for too long.
  13. hitmbig Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 5
    Maul would have been great to see in AOTC and tehn be killed by Anakin in RotS. I like Dooku, but he is a chump compared to Maul.
  14. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    Having Maul in ROTS might have even tipped the rating of the movie to PG-13.

    That's one evil looking MF. :cool:
  15. Xyber_Hex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2004
    star 4
    I am thinking that too many people really underestimate Dooku's power.
  16. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    Dont get me wrong, Dooku is VERY powerful, but I just think that Maul would have been more powerful than him by the time of AOTC had he lived.
  17. Darth_Pestelis Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2004
    I think you guys are forgetting that maybe Darth Tyranus, though old, may have been a bit more powerful than Darth Maul. I mean sure Maul was good with a lightsaber, but was he really that strong in the Dark Side? Look at it this way, Maul was beaten by Obiwan as a padawan but, Dooku took Obiwan, when Kenobi was a Jedi master. Now obviously Obiwan was stronger when he faught Dooku. So, ifso facto, Dooku was probably stronger than Maul.

    But had Maul not died, I think he may have been able to be a diplomat, I mean we only saw the warrior/hunter aspect of Maul. It's not like we know all that much about his character. Besides him being a Sith. Well unless you read books... but canon-wise, we don't know all that much.

  18. YTMND Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2004
    star 5
    Also,Dooku took with him great knowledge of the light side of the force.
    That would help him understand his new enemy/former allies even better .
  19. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    I think that's more of a handicap than an advantage.

    Maul and Sidious are the only really "true sith" we see in these movies because they were never jedi, and they both are extremely evil and look and act like they come straight out of a horror movie :p

    Maul=Pinhead

    Sidious=Freddy Krueger










    EDIT: Anybody who was raised to be passive, peaceful and understanding (Vader & Dooku as jedi) could never really truly be an effective and totally ruthless sith lord. Maul and Sidious were probably killers by the time they were 6 years old.

    By Sidious poisoning Dooku's and Anakin's minds hoping they could infiltrate the jedi he unknowingly was infiltrating the sith by bringing in former jedi instead of just raising another sith lord from birth.
  20. blicknasty Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2004
    star 4
    Remember folks, there are many ways to acomplish a goal. Palpatine would have used Maul to acomplish his goals. I personally would have liked more Maul action, but the rest of the Sith have sufficed.
  21. DarthDeren Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Sith are never satisfied with just one apprentice. If Obi had not taken out Maul, Sidious eventually would have. He needed Maul, and he needed Dooku, and now he needs Anakin.
  22. limsunno Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2004
    star 1
    with all resPect to the IFS i am 4 sure that Sidius Plan reallY chanGed after TPM....
    that is whY it took 10 Years from the TPM 2 the AOTC to start back the ball rollinG in full swinG

    "allwaYs in movement the future is"
  23. toochilled Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2000
    star 5
    the plan was never for maul to survive, as far as I am concerned.
  24. rabehlen03 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2004
    I remember a quote from Lucas that went something like this:
    Sidious put Maul in a position to be killed, which he shouldn't have done.
    He spends the prequels looking for a replacement sith apprentice because Maul died.
    If anyone can find that whole quote or two, that would be great.
  25. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    If Maul hadn't died, then Palpatine wouldn't have needed Tyranus. Maul or Sidious by hologram, would've handled the Confederacy. The only way this scenario would change is if Dooku figured out who Sidious was and offered to join him to begin with. After testing his loyalty, he would've pitted Maul and Tyranus against each other. Whoever survived that encounter, would've gone on to serve him for the Clone Wars and the Jedi Purge.
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