If Palpatine's plan went as designed....

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by DARTHCARDINUS, Dec 24, 2004.

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  1. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Why would dooku allow Anakin to survive, knowing that palpy's ultimate plan was to turn Anakin over. I don't think that Dooku was left in the dark about Anakin. Basically, dooku had to know at some point that the Palpy would kill him in one form or another

    Yoda came in. It's a case of an edit with a scene missing. Originally, Yoda Force shoves to Battle Droids as he enters the hangar. Dooku hears this and closes down his saber, putting it back on his belt.
  2. ManoWan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2002
    star 4
    Darthangel,

    I think at that point Dooku felt he HAD to kill Obi-wan in order to excape. Obi-wan would not let him go.

    Remember his first warning:

    "my Jedi powers are far greater than yours...now back down"

    Didn't want to have to fight or kill Obi-wan, but would if he needed to.

  3. patico74 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2003
    star 3
    how did he know yoda would save annikan.
  4. MasterASH Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Palps didnt know of Anakin???? He or his master created Anakin.... of course he knows. He arranged everything from letting them escape, hitting the naboo cruiser and directing them to Tattoine so that Qui gon (the only Jedi that would defy the counsell and train the boy) would find Ani and train him.
  5. Darth_Sidious_1983 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2005
    star 1
    Interesting analysis - Sids really risked more and more, kinda like der Fuhrer and his scale of invasions (start small, then get revenge, then go aerial on the RAF, then be a "barbarous" mother******).

    Oh yeah - and if Dooku did die then, Palps' time in office would be up...
  6. millenniumteacher Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2005
    star 2
    Sidious could have in no way known about Anakin Skywalker in The Phantom Menace

    How could he have not known about Anakin? He created Anakin.
  7. SnowmaN2001 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2005
    star 1
    It didn't happen like that. maul died and Dooku became palp's new apprentice. Then Palps plans went in motion, the war started. In ROTS, Dooku dies in the beginning, and then Anakin turned shortly after, becomming Palp's new apprentice.
    Then He became Darth Vader!

    Live with it, it was great
  8. wee_jedi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2004
    star 1

    The Dooku plot has always annoyed me accept for the parallel of the anakin/dooku luke/vader duels

    Lucas could have developed Maul, perhaps have have obi-wan badly injure Maul, but he survives etc in epI. Sidious continues Mauls training and Maul helps organises the clone war, has a duel with Ob1/Anakin in epII, mames Anakin, then again they Duel in EpIII Anakin slays Maul and then we know the rest. it could have worked very well.

    Alot of my friends whom arn't massive star wars fans have commentated that the Dooku plot etc. made things more complicated than they needed to be and would have liked the expansion of the Maul character.

    Having Maul destroyed early probably did set back Sidious a bit, but he found new apprentices anyway, and until epvi everything that transpired "mostly" (not all) when accordingly to Sidious's design.

  9. PrinceEspaaValorum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2005
    star 4
    Interesting question. If Maul had survived, then I think Dooku and Anakin would have remained Jedi.
  10. Lord-Vegas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2003
    star 1
    It would have been really cool to watch 3 Sith lords square off in ROTS. Vader with Maul and Dooku if they'd survived
  11. Darthchicken93 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2005
    star 1
    And in ROTJ,Sidious didnt expect Vader to suddenly switch sides and kill him.
  12. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    Interesting question. I think from this aspect TPM is a microcosm, or a prototype of Sidious' grand plan. Even though it ultimately failed, it showed his plan and his blueprint was repeated on a larger scale 10 years later. In either case the apprentice was a throwaway, someone meant to be dangled in front of the Jedi to represent a threat. Even had Maul survived, I'm sure that the opportunity to have a respected former Jedi like Dooku turn to become a Sith Lord would have been too much to resist.
  13. Jango10 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2002
    star 5
    How could he have not known about Anakin? He created Anakin.

    You don't know if he created Anakin or not. It never explicitly says it in the film. It just hints at it.


    I believe that Darth Maul was Palpitine's "Chosen One". Maul was supposed to be the Apprentice to lead the assualt on the Jedi Temple, and then hunt down the remaining Jedi. Then Palpitine would rule the galaxy with Maul at his side.
  14. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    That's what I think would have happened.;)

    But I'd also like to add that the entire PT would have been better IMO if he'd (Lucas)kept Maul instead of switching to Dooku.
    I dont know what it is but I think everything would have seemed more "focused" and the plot would have moved along more smoothly if Maul had been the central villain.

    Everything seems to move at a fast pace and you dont really get a chance to get to know the characters.

    It's like they're here one minute, gone the next.

    (that's one of the differences between the PT and the OT)
  15. LittleGreenManYoda Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 3
    It all comes back to the power of foresight Sidous sent Darth Maul to Naboo to fight Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon and foreshadowed that he would kill Qui-Gon and inturn he would of been killed himself by Obi-Wan, Sidous didnt want Maul because he wasnt the type of Charismatic leader as Dooku was thats why Sidous took Dooku, he needed someone to lead the seperetist movement agiasnt the Republic. The fact that Sidous didnt know about Anakin is foolish Sidous isnt an idiot of course he knew about Anakin. He didnt need Dooku anymore because he was getting way past his prime and coming of to much age hell probly older than Sidous. Like when Anakin and Obi-Wan are back on Naboo before the celebration Palpatine/Sidous says to Anakin "We will watch your future with great intreset." hmm I think he had his eye on him all along even before TPM I beilive that he did in fact creat Anakin, you can debate me all you want on that topic but until I see some hard proof then im sticking to that, And as for Plagius Creating Anakin no way he may of taught Sidous how to do it but no one even heard of Plagius before ROTS.
  16. Sidious-3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 3
    Ash....your out of your mind here, you just jumped the gun. No "but"s! Palps/Sid didn't know about Anakin, or that's what a sensible person can grasp, until he arrived on Corosaunt with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. If he had found out about him before that, then he probably found him from the Force and the whole "Palps and his master created Anakin" thing is just a total load of crap! I'm not trying to insulting your opinion here, and if I have I'm sorry but, the thing of Palps and his master creating Anakin just jumped out of nowhere and the odds of it actually happening are too slim to none.
  17. Darth Sin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 1999
    star 5
    I have always disliked the talk that Maul would not have been the type of leader that Dooku was, and that is why he chose Dooku. I disagree. Palpatine had to go with Dooku because he lost Darth Maul. I really do not think that Palpatine originally intended to replace Maul with Dooku.

    I truly believe that Sidious intended for Maul to lead the Separatists as Dooku did. Let us not forget that Sidious was Maul's apprentice, and I think he not only taught him the ways of the dark side, but as his mentor, he taught him in diplomacy, politics and negotiations.

    I for one think that when Sidious sent Maul to Naboo, that was going to be the beginning of Maul's leadership, along with finishing off Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. I really believe Sidious thought Maul would defeat the two Jedi, and then have Amidala sign the treaty.

    As others have said, in many ways I think it would have worked very well had Maul survived until ROTS, instead of Dooku. When I look back now, Dooku did not have the impact he shoudl have, especially played by Lee. I like the idea of Maul killing Qui-Gon, and being injured by Obi-Wan, even to have made it appear that Maul had died from fall, then to have him show up as the leader of the Separatists, maybe even wearing a disguise of sorts, until he faced off with Obi-Wan and Anakin in the hangar.

    Nevertheless, I still believe Maul could have led the Separatists, because Sidious would have taught him over the 10 year period between TPM and AOTC.

    Darth Sin! :cool:
  18. Jango10 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2002
    star 5
    It all comes back to the power of foresight Sidous sent Darth Maul to Naboo to fight Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon and foreshadowed that he would kill Qui-Gon and inturn he would of been killed himself by Obi-Wan

    "You have been well trained my young aprrentice. They will be no match for you."

    It sounds as if he thought Maul would kill both of them.
  19. LittleGreenManYoda Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 3

    Sidous could of just been feeding him a line, "You have been well trained my young apprentice. But im afraid you are going to die, but good luke on your quest."
  20. Drew_Atreides Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
  21. DarthGeorgeBush Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2005
    star 1
    If Palpatine's plan went as designed they would have a peaceful galaxy
  22. DarthGeorgeBush Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2005
    star 1
  23. PADMELUVA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2004
    star 4
    sure it would be peacful, but no one would be free. it would be elitist, and the people would live in fear. the people would have no way of changing their government, because the government itself is made up of these elites.
  24. DarthGeorgeBush Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2005
    star 1
    Just because hes an Emperor doesnt make him such a bad guy or a bad poltical system or even make him a bad ruler. Empires have worked in the past, and the most successful civilization ever the Roman Empire was ruled by Emperors
  25. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    "After Darth Sidious' first apprentice is killed, he has to come up with a new apprentice, and rather than coming up with some baby that he trains from birth, which is what he should have done--well, he shouldn't have gotten himself in a position of getting his apprentice killed anyways--he's decided to make his move, so he needs somebody that was already trained. The point is to set up that he turned this one Jedi, so that he could turn another Jedi. It has to be set up that way."

    --George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.


    Lucas is showing how Sidious went from point A to point D, with B and C in between.
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