JCC If Pinocchio said "my nose will grow"

nobody nose

 

"We can confuse him and make his head explode! [robot voice] This statement is a lie. But if it's a lie, then it must be true! And if it's true, it must be... Whoop, whoop, whoop! KA-BOOM!"

 

Colonel Campbell calls him on the codec and berates him for creating a paradox, game over.

 

I was expecting the OP to be some complete non-sequitur. I am disappoint.

 

Is it anywhere stated that his nose grows only when he tells a lie? I'm perfectly fine with a situation where if he tells a lie, he can't control the nose growth, but at other times, he can cause it to grow or shrink at will.

 

His third eye opens.

His nose, meanwhile, I dunno, achieves enlightenment.

 

Norman, coordinate!

 

I'd be like "holy **** this puppet just spoke"

 

He never indicated when his nose will grow. So long as, at some point in the future, he tells a lie and his nose responds appropriately, what he said is true. There's no contradiction here.

 

So this is like that whole "if a man is a liar and says 'I am a liar' is he lying" thing?

That paradox is stupid. It obviously depends on whether or no he's telling the truth.

 

It obviously depends on what Pinocchio thinks will happen. Or is his nose growth independent of his knowledge and completely omniscient of what is true and what isn't? Could Pinocchio just start saying "the winning lotto number will be 00001", " the winning lotto number will be 00002"... until his nose didn't grow?


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It grows. No. Yes. No. I don't. Can't. Logic...processors....fail...does not....

 

Well, except for the fact that deciding a proposition about future events has a definite truth value at the time it is made is significantly more philosophically problematic than the liar paradox, sure.

 

Irrelevant, actually. Pinocchio's nose is not an independent arbiter of some sort of "objective" or "universal" truth. It would not have grown if he had laughed off the Big Bang as impossible. Rather, it only responds to what Pinocchio understands to be true or false according to his most earnest perception of the world. If Pinocchio is a fatalist, and if he therefore "knows" he will lie in the future, he is certainly telling the truth insofar as his nose is concerned.

 

We definitely don't know that, as I pointed above. You are making many assumptions here, Wocky, and this is a serious subject.

 

Yes we do. Watch this scene.


Pinocchio describes meeting two monsters. When asked whether he was afraid, he says he was not, causing his nose to grow. If it were based on objective truth, this should not have happened. He was not, in fact, afraid while skipping school, because there were no monsters to be afraid of. But his nose grew because he knew internally that in the scenario posited (meeting monsters), he would have been afraid, regardless of whether he actually was. So he was functionally lying in his response by accurately describing his emotional state at the time in question. Subjective, not objective truth.

QED.

 

Oh. You are basing your argument on the Disney version, not the original Italian fairy tale. That explains the lack of subtlety. Sad but understandable.


EDIT: Actually, you are completely right. The tale my mom read me had Pinocchio's nose growing whenever he was nervous; the moralizing "only when lying" might have been added a posteriori. This brings more questions, of course...

 

It stays the same because Pinocchio isn't lying. His nose will grow...if he tells a lie. Therefore, Pinocchio, much like Obi-Wan Kenobi, realizes that omitting the truth is not necessarily lying.


And after he comes to said realization, he decides to run for Congress.

And yet nobody questions how a sentient puppet made of wood just created biological life in the form of the two baby birds...


Or did the Blue Fairy do that just to screw with him?

 

His nose grows because he continues the lie: "but they tied me in a big sack". It doesn't begin to grow until he says that after he's already said he wasn't afraid. It has nothing to do with whether or not he was afraid. Objective truth.

 

Does anybody really know the secret? Or the combination for this life and where they keep it? It's kinda sad when you don't know the meaning, but everything happens for a reason.

 

I don't particular care about being nosy concerning Pinocchio.

 

I think the real question is if Pinocchio puts his nose up to Thor's hammer and then tells a lie, will the nose lift the hammer?

 

I strongly suspect Odin's magic is more powerful than some random fairy's, so probably not.