ST If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise.

Not liking plot developments doesn't make them "plot holes." The term is misused and overused to the point of being meaningless and nonsensical.

 

Obviously, Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker are playing an epic game of hide and seek that went completely out of control because they both took it far too seriously. That will be the "I'm your father" moment in VIII.

 

When Yoda says to pass on what he has learned, he primarily has Skywalkers in mind. Not only is that implied in the scene where he says it, but it's supported by the weight given to Yoda's utterance of "No, there is another."

Ben Solo was certainly the prize pupil, strong with the Force and meant to be the next Luke type figure.

When the star of his academy defects to the dark side, it doesn't matter how strong of a combatant Luke is at that point: he's failed, his project failed, the academy would fall apart around such a turn of events, probably leading to some murders as well. This all seems well supported in the film to me.

 

I'm really hoping that even though we did not see them that Luke isnt alone at the first Jedi Temple and actually has been training about 2 or 3 apprentices in secret...

 

Or Luke has 2 or 3 apprentices building a train for him. A magical space train that fires lasers and stuff. Luke will then magically transform into Ringo Starr and narrate the entirety of Episode IX.

 

Snoke didn't seem all that concerned that his group's big superweapon, which presumably took quite a long time to build, was being destroyed. His response was essentially "eh whatever. Evacuate, go pick up Kylo Ren, and bring him back to me." I kind of think that Snoke has his own agenda separate from the others, and that he's merely using the FO to serve his own ends. He knows that people like Hux are pro-Imperial fanatics, and he knows that Ben is obsessed with being as awesome as his uber-Sith granddad. So he's manipulating them as part of his actual grand plan.

And yes, I think that he meant plural. Because as naturally talented as Rey may be, I don't think that she's a threat to Snoke himself right now. It's be like ANH or ESB Luke trying to take on Sheev alone, that battle would have been over VERY quickly. But if there are other talented Force Sensitive people out there besides her, then Luke's return could be a threat since not only could he potentially put together a new Jedi Order relatively quickly (with Rey's help even), but he'd presumably learn from his past mistakes and do things differently this time.

 

Indeed. In 20 minutes, the Republic loses five planets and at least some of its fleet, and the First Order loses its superweapon and, again, some or all of the forces meant to protect it. If Snoke wants to weaken both sides for the benefit of a third party, he sure got the job done.

Perhaps that's the real reason so little time and effort went into drawing FO or Republic ideas and hardware. Shouldn't there have been at least some slight sketch of the pre-SKB-attack Republic politics or personality, if only for the sake of having contrast in the next movie? But if neither side was meant to last into VIII, leaving them nearly blank would work. By the time we come back, they'll both be rump states at best as Snoke's third wave eats a crippled galaxy alive.

 

I got the general idea of the FO/NR dynamic actually. The Resistance, that could have used a bit more clarification though. I THINK that I get it, but they could have been more clear.

 

There is a possibility that Luke, Ren and Snoke aren't all events that occur as a single betrayal. Eg. Luke begins to train Ren and fails for whatever reason however doesn't really progress that far, decides to leave to find the Jedi temple sensing that without Jedi the galaxy is doomed. After he has left Snoke seeks out Ren and turns him to the dark side and causes havoc whilst Luke has little idea of whats transpired since leaving. This seems plausible as even Han seemed surprised to see Ren with the first order and you would have thought that if Leia knew her son was leading the first order his capture not be a higher priority of the resistance?

Something that also wasn't obvious at the end of the movie was if in fact Luke has any means to actually leave the island...

 

I took that line as a hint that maybe a few of Luke's students were still around, maybe staying low profile but each picking up a student. Then when Luke re-emerges, the ones in hiding return as well. I also like the idea that Luke has been watching Rey through the Force from afar, and that he has been gently and subtly guiding her, perhaps for years. Also, Snoke seemed far more interested in denying the Resistance information on where Luke was then learning it himself, the implication being that he already knew where Luke was and knew he could not return without help.

 

Very possible. The little we know about Luke's order falling and Ren turning are a very thin tissue to stretch over 30-some odd years.

 

I don't mind them covering main events in books/comics etc., but i would like to see Ep. VIII cover the reasons why they are where they are.

I do like the idea we will see Luke train Rey and not just fast forward to "oh she's a jedi". I wouldn't mind the main focus on their relationship (father/ daughter?) but also on a few half trained Jedi that can help out.

 

From what I understand, nobody survived the Jedi massacre. Luke is kind of on his alone (again) with the exception of Rey.

I do think more then just Rey will rise with Luke though. Don't know how, who (maybe Finn but I really don't hope they go that route) or when but Snoke's fear of the "new generation of Jedi" being led back by Luke will happen. I also think Luke is going to learn from his mistakes a bit and perhaps focus more on just a couple students instead of several.

 

I've thought about that line many times. It's carefully ambiguous, but I think it's possible it may refer to the new Jedi whose emergence is awakening the force, ie Rey. Perhaps Snoke and Kylo can sense that the new Jedi will be...well, for one thing, Jedi, ie light-side...and very powerful, a threat to Kylo.

Given how easily Kylo seems to have dispatched the previous batch of Jedi, you wouldn't think he'd be too worried about more of them turning up. But perhaps the force-power shows signs of being more than he can handle? Go, Rey!

Why is Luke in hiding? Does Kylo simply want to kill him? Or does Luke have something Kylo wants, and the only way Luke can stop him from getting it is to drop off the grid completely? Or is he guarding something important?

 

That as been my hope since Day 1 though I don't think Kylo should know what Luke is secretly hiding/protecting/has that was part of the reason he fell out of the universe. I think that should be something only Snoke knows. And it needs to be something big. Really big and important. So much though if Kylo ever found what it really was, it could flip him back to the light which terrifies Snoke obviously.

I just don't think they are going that direction. I still hope for it especially Rian at the helm but have no expectations they will.

 

I'm hoping its revealed that Luke actually is a terrible teacher because shortly after TFA he got his tongue ripped out and that's the real reason he says nothing to Rey. Lol jk

I think it means plural but I also wondered this! Great thread.

 

...and in the darkness behind them a rainbow of lightsabers are ignited one by one....




gave me chills

 

Motterman quoted

SNOKE: The droid will soon be delivered to the Resistance, leading them to the last Jedi. If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise.

?????

I stumbled over this quote yesterday and can't make head or tail out of it.

This must be some kind of prophecy, right?

Snoke certainly knows than Ben Kylo Ren has killed Luke's students. He also knows that Luke has vanished and is hiding somewhere. Why and to do what is unknown to the audience and that probably includes Snoke.

So at best this is an assumption, that if Luke "returns" he'll train Jedi again?

 

I felt that the intent of this was clear. Though not specific to Luke training Jedi, it seems obvious that Snoke totally believes that if Luke once again engages, the Jedi Order in some form will be somehow reestablished and his plans become very difficult to achieve.

 

I'm a huge fan of "here comes the cavalry!" moments.

 

This is what i have been thinking. They were able to take out the last batch. What is now diff? Snoke probably has some idea of what Luke is up to since I do not think the map is to Luke, it is to where folks think Luke went. Never made any sense that it was a direct map to a guy who did not tell folks exactly where he was going, at least there is no evidence he told any folks for sure.

 

A personal belief or prophecy that Snoke is making, but not necessarily a statement of fact. Perhaps Snoke is trying to incite (light a fire under) Kylo to get serious about finding Luke and destroying the last of the Jedi. Yoda has made statements that he believed completely, but those statements did not become facts.

Cavalry moments can be great if done right. I don't like the ones that fall into plot convenience to save the protagonist at the last possible moment. The cavalry moment at the end of The Two Towers was great. The moment at the end of Saving Private Ryan where the plane blows up the tank that saves Tom Hank's character fell into the deus ex machina trope.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of Star Trek 2009 or even the Resistance arriving at Maz's castle in TFA.

 

The fact that this line by Snoke is delivered right AFTER he mentioned the awakening to Kylo and right BEFORE Han and the gang arrive on Takodana for the first time REALLY sell me on the idea that Finn had his awakening on Jakku.

The prequels took place in a time when the Jedi were 10,000 strong.

The Orginal Trilogy took place in a time when the Jedi were all but extinct.

And the Sequel Trilogy takes place during an era of rebirth for the Jedi.

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Some thoughts on this bit of dialogue, and the mystery surrounding Luke in general. Although much of Snoke and his real machinations are shrouded in mystery in TFA (a good thing at this stage), can it not be said that he is also aware that Luke has gone to the first Jedi Temple? As this seems likely to me, then perhaps Snoke knows EXACTLY what this will mean, and that it's the ancient "power" at this temple that may see the return of the "new" Jedi. It's telling that the scene where Han tells us that Luke is rumoured to have gone looking for the temple follows pretty much directly from the previous Snoke scene. However this is in itself curious. Is the Temple definitely at Ach-To? Or has Luke already found the temple previously and is somehow "trapped" elsewhere? Ok let's assume the temple is where we find Luke at the end of TFA.

You see the thing is the idea of Luke actively searching for this ancient temple seems at odds with the idea of him running away because he's just "traumatised" by the destruction of his Academy. Was he searching for the temple just to find an ancient power that can "heal" his soul? Or was he looking for the temple believing it contained the power to destroy Snoke/Kylo/The First Order? How do we interpret the last few scenes? It seems to me like there is definitely pain in his expression/demeanour, but also that he is waiting, as if he doesn't have a choice but to wait. Perhaps his discovery at the temple is indeed prophecy; the prophecy of Rey, who will find him and help him rebuild the Jedi. Not that I'm particularly fond of this idea, unless there's more to it.

Why oh why do we gotta wait almost two years!!!