PT If the CIS won...

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by darthbarracuda, Mar 16, 2013.

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  1. darthbarracuda Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    If the CIS won the Clone Wars, would Palps have done his plan anyways? Cause he controlled both sides, so would he just merge in with the CIS? The outcome is the same?
  2. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    In order for them to win, he'd need to decide that them winning will actually further his goal.

    And I'm not sure what the CIS would define as "winning". Forcing a peace treaty, or outright conquest of the entire republic?
  3. Grievousdude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 3
    If they did win Palpatine would probably just take control of them.
  4. darthbarracuda Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    That's what I was saying
  5. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    Isn't the PT all about some tarriff dispute? They get lower taxes/duties/customs whatever. Trade. Are happy.
  6. Grievousdude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 3
    and then he would probably kill any CIS members that try to overthrow him like Dooku.
  7. bstnsx704 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2013
    star 3
    There's really no way they could have won. Palpatine was in control of both sides, manipulating every event as the war waged on so that his ultimate goal could be realized. Everything went according to his plan because, no matter what, he wouldn't allow himself to lose.

    The only way for anyone to truly change the tide of the war, for better or worse, would have been to eliminate Palpatine.
    SithLordPat, DARTHSHAME, ILNP and 2 others like this.
  8. Klingon Padawan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2013
    star 1
    In ROTS, Anakin shuts down the droid armies on Palpatine's orders. So, yes Palpatine was in control of the entire thing and he used the conflict as a tool to reach his goals and manipulate people.

    The only person who would kill Palpatine would be Count Dooku. I think Dooku would have tried to take over the Republic with the droid armies.
    darthbarracuda likes this.
  9. darthbarracuda Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    I never fully understood this, and I've been into Star Wars as a professional geek for years: did Dooku know everything about Sidious' plans? Did he know that Sidious was Palps?
  10. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    Yes, he knew of his two identities. Watch his reaction in ROTS when Palpatine tells Anakin to kill him. Dooku did know that Palpatine wanted Anakin on their side, but he didn't know that he would replace him.
  11. Klingon Padawan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2013
    star 1
    Good question.

    Dooku definitely knew that Sidious was Palpatine. In AOTC he told Anakin that a Sith Lord named Darth Sidious was control of the Senate.
  12. sg1A Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2013
    star 1
    All i know is that Palpatine put in a shutdown of all droids. He had ensured that the CIS couldn't win.

    Dooku should have killed Sidious, to contempt was he.
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  13. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    The CIS was never intended to succeed.
    Death T and darthbarracuda like this.
  14. Ambervikings91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2012
    star 2
    They would have won if he wanted them to, he controlled both sides, if they were going to win he would have scaled them back, he needed both sides to build up a bunch. They can't win unless he wanted them to
  15. Jedi Gunny Yahtzee Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    May 20, 2008
    star 9
    Palpatine played both sides so that he was going to win no matter what. Had the CIS somehow won, that probably would have set up some new order, and Palpy would've become the head of it immediately.
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  16. darthbarracuda Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    That's exactly what I was thinking.
  17. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    While I agree he played both sides to win no matter what, he also set up the CIS to be the fall guys. They were never intended to be an actual threat.

    Think about how he starts in TPM, by recruiting the hapless Nemoidians. Are there any more gullible idiots in the entire Galaxy than them? Easily intimidated and not very smart. Communists created the term "useful idiots" for people who do your bidding while thinking they are acting in their own interest but can easily be discarded once your goals are accomplished, and it applies to this gang perfectly.

    The rest of the CIS is no better, a bunch of weak useful idiots in the same mold as the Nemoidians. Grievous is an idiot lap dog, and Dooku is under Sidious' thumb. There is no real leadership to the CIS and no real threat. It is a straw man, designed to be knocked down at will. Have you ever seen firemen training, where they take a fake hollywood building or a scrap car and set it on fire to practice putting out the fire? Yeah, that.

    Palpatine even had to orchestrate his own kidnapping. Anything they did that was even remotely threatening was initiated at Palpatine's command. No threat whatsoever, and if by some chance they ever did start being a real threat, he'd snuff them out. As it turns out he did anyway at the end of ROTS.
    Last edited by janstett, Mar 18, 2013
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  18. LordThrawnStark Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2013
    star 1
    He told Obi-wan. Sorry, I'm nitpicking :)

    Honestly, I don't think Palps intended for the CIS to win. Don't forget he had "Order 66" planted into the Clones somewho. It would have been alot harder to wipe out all the jedi if the CIS won. Palpy planned for the Republic to win. It was never in doubt, in my opinion. He had it planned to have the jedi right where he wanted them.
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  19. Slicer87 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 2
    It is based on how Dole Pineapple overthrew the last queen of Hawaii since her policies became a threat to Dole and the other large businesses on the islands. So they set up their own government until the US anexed Hawaii. The Republic was restricting free trade so the TF and the rest of the CIS was duped into fighting back, to replace the Republic with the CIS that would be more friendly to their interest, free trade and such. Only Paply never intended for them to win, he set them up not only as a strawman, but also to wipe out the only other great threat to his power besides the Jedi who had the money and resources to fight him. According to the deleted Biggs scene from ANH, the Empire has nationalized all trade (far worse than the Republic's trade taxes), probably to ensure no one could gather enough resources to pose a great threat to the Empire, so they thought.
  20. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I would argue the same for the Republic.
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  21. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    Are you a supporter of the Hawaiian Separatist Movement?
  22. The Supreme Chancellor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    That's not proof that he knows Sidious is Palpatine. Nute Gunray told Dooku that while he was on trial. There is no explicit proof in the films that Dooku know his Master's alter-ego.
  23. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Both sides were pawns, the means to a ruined end.

    There is only one winner in this phony Galactic Conflict, Darth Sidious.
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  24. Prodigy_Knight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 1
    If Palpatine for some reason decided that the CIS were those who should inherit the galaxy, and I think he had the power to make the Republic war effort crumble from within make the majority of the worlds go separatist ...

    Palpatine would rules as the most powerful CEO of the largest corporation, in 10 years nation planets would be empty shells having no power to protect their people from the economic slavery of the corporation which started the CIS.

    Also if the Empire declared the Force a old false religion, in this scenario Palaptaine could start a church of the Dark Side with himself as Pope, insert Pope Benedicts joke here, and every force user as a minor saint/priest.
  25. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    There was no way they were going to win, because they were designed to lose. The droid army was tested and proved ineffective in TPM, which assured the Sith that they had to use clones for their forces, instead.
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